Violin Forum/Message Board

Clifford Green · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:06 am Post subject:

Talk about putting the heart of the tree over the soul of the instrument!

ctviolin · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:35 am Post subject:

Hey!

Wait a minute now.

That belly's a really well SLABBED piece of *what* again?

Yes, I've seen this photo before from you - but don't believe I've ever figured out what the slabbed belly piece was? I've glotta admit that, that's one hell of a cool piece of belly wood showing.

90% tilt from quartered? (and yet, when looking at the fore edge, you'd think that that slab, was damn near quartered...)
You'd think it would collapse of its own transgression of the "usual."

??

Cello, right? Unreal.
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R Mac · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject:

rabn · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject:

This discussion is exactly what I had hoped for. As a newbie, with only two under my belt and working on three more and restoration, I wanted to hear from as many experienced luthiers as possible.
How many people use density or tapping to decide on whether to use the wood or not?

ctviolin · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject:

L P Reedy · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject:

Michael Darnton · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject:

Neither for me. I've had so many unexpectedly good results from using pieces of wood that "shouldn't" work that I no longer believe ANY of the myths. I take the next piece off the pile and make a violin.

Over the course of around 170+ violins, I've replaced just one or two tops that didn't seem to work out. Along the way I've gotten really great results from a couple of things that weren't supposed to work at all--like a violin where the top cut like pith. The best guitar I ever made, the top was so floppy laterally that you could roll the top up into a 4-inch tube before I braced it.

A lot of the wood myth is based on more-is-better, without really knowing what makes better instruments. I remember when violin makers were all chasing the lowest density top wood that they could find, in a less-is-better fad, then five years later, none of them were doing it, because it turned out not to be working well. But the idea SOUNDED good, in theory, so it must have been true.
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DonLeister · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:09 am Post subject:

"How many people use density or tapping to decide on whether to use the wood or not?"

Well, I know sugar maple is rather dense, or heavy, so I don't use it kowing that I would have to make it thinner than I am comfortable with, to get it in a weight range that I want.
Sometimes I'll tap on a plate just out of curiosity but I quit measuring the tap tones, I do record the weight of the finished plates. I always worried whether the taptones were right or not, it took up time and no one seemed to care None of my clients ever asked either. Ultimately I had to deal with what the instrument was doing once it was finished and that , I'm rambling, sorry. You get the picture.

fjodor · Member Joined: 28 Jan 2013 Posts: 60

Is there any top wood you would consider too heavy to use? I heard an advice from a good maker that it is important to choose light wood for the top. On the latest violin I used spruce that was very low density but with super thick graduations. It seems to have worked ok. I have now an old top that I measured to be 0.47 g/cm3, otherwise a lovely piece of wood but considerably heavier than anything else I have used so I am a bit hesitant to try it.

ctviolin · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:45 am Post subject:

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:45 am Post subject:

I'm tending to think that what you do with the wood is more important than the wood. I had a bad time with Engelmann, but I worked it to my standard dimensions at the time; now I'd keep it a whole lot thicker, perhaps using weight as a measure. Heavy wood has never been a problem; though I haven't tried Sitka, I think I could probably make it work.

The problem with Engelmann was lack of a complex sound, which may just have been a lack of substance in the top.
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actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

I just saw the cello top (Michael's photo.)

That's amazing!

It does appear, however, that the big shot makers of the golden period did discriminate in their wood choices on aesthetic grounds. The instruments made for royalty an other lofty clients always seem to have choice pretty wood. No better acoustically, perhaps, but it seems that then, as now, there is an "eye candy" component to material choice.

fjodor · Member Joined: 28 Jan 2013 Posts: 60