Violin Forum/Message Board

[Michael Darnton]

Since rib heights on many classical period Cremonese instruments are obviously (as told by the heights of the linings and knowledge of the makers' original practices) as much as 2 or 3mm from what they were originally (cutting down the ribs a bit when removing and replacing the top is usual, as is raising the ribs back up when they start getting too low) any precision in this matter was lost centuries ago.

Yet the instruments still work pretty well. Obviously rib height is not a make or break issue, if it matters at all: at the Oberlin workshop one year they took a viola and progressively cut the ribs lower and lower. The consensus was that it really didn't matter much.

amezcua, I think the reason for the flavor of the responses is that you've made some strong absolutist statements which really don't flow from any evidence, like this one: "That shows at least one maker who must have seen a point in setting the Air Resonance------Stradivarius." That things are a certain way certainly in no way shows intent. Violins are not really all that different from each other, so they will inevitably act the same in many respects which may or may not be important. One of the first things we learned in statistics class is the difference between correlation and causation. It's something that very few violin makers seem to have a handle on along with any inkling of proper scientific method. You can brush up on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

An additional problem is that it appears that you may never have actually made a violin, and that your advice comes entirely from books and thinking. If that's the case, you certainly shouldn't expect your advice to be received as authoritative.

I had a hilarious circumstance in my shop where an amateur maker came in and tapped the plates of a violin I was making, and sagely declared the tap tones "correct". But I hadn't tuned them: they were correct on his scale of measurement because of a host other things I had probably done correctly, not because I had tuned anything. On the other hand, I've seen more than a few violins by makers who've tuned the plates "correctly" which were crap.
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[DonLeister]

This thread was originally about rib heights, as jmck11 was just asking for measurements, but stuff happens.

Amezcua, I think the members here have been pretty generous with their time explaining their ideas and responding to you, and not in an abusive way.
I often see a problem in that your line of reasoning is unsupported or creates a diversion away from the subject at hand.
I do see you act like an expert, quote well known authorities, and I wonder how can you point a person (a newbie in your words) in the wrong direction?
Here is someone making their first violin, is he to wonder if their air resonance and 'knock on the back tone' is right or wrong?
No makers do this in practice. There is enough other concrete stuff to worry about.
I have never heard someone say 'well that fiddle doesn't sound right because the air resonance isn't right'.
Instrument plans give measurements for rib heights, not cubic inches of volume or air resonances.

If you want to talk about air resonance that's great and can be informative, but you can't give incomplete information like 'only Bb' as an absolute.

[Jack H.]

[John Cadd]

Jack H Yes you are right I should not have said it like that. Looking back at it the message sounds much too unfriendly. I find it really difficult to give the right impression on the net. Something I need to work on as well as steer clear of luthier questions in general. Just one question though. If you rule out well known books that have been around for years is there some kind of league table of books recommended by well respected Violin Groups ? That would save offending makers that have moved on to different ideas. It would cut down internet traffic but not knowing how makers will react makes all that a bit of an uncomfortable lottery.

[Lemuel]

amezcua,

Thanks for taking it constructively.

[DonLeister]

Amezcua,
Nobody is ruling out Sacconi's book or other good sources, go back and read what has been said.
Someone asked a simple question and you chime in like you are an expert, with basically useless information that no one goes by, and then the thread gets taken into a different direction.
A lot of very experienced makers have put hours of time into making this forum a source of excellent information and advice. I would like to see it remain so and not turn into place to post flippant advice ad nauseum on irrelevent thesis.
This is a maker's forum, can you maybe find somewhere else to post your ignoratio elenchi? I think that's the term for it, I don't know what else to call it.
I noticed that you have also been asked to not post on another forum for violinist' advice on instruments, what does it take for you to get it?

[Chet Bishop]

Or you could try actually building a few violins and begin having something constructive to share. Just a thought.
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[Chad48309]

[Michael Darnton]

[Chet Bishop]

[Mark Sullivan]

Is this the Hill book you refer to?
Antonio Stradivari His Life and Work (1644-1737)
W. Henry Hill
Arthur F. Hill
Alfred E Hill

Mark

[John Cadd]

Thanks Chet . Special thanks to Mr Darnton for a valuable perspective and greetings to Lemuel . I bought the Hill book a long time back but can`t think where I put it. Job for tommorrow.

[rs]

Well, while we are on the subject, I will throw this out there. I have been cutting my upper bouts down to about 28.5-29 mm (the remainder about 31-31.5) and players seem to like this a lot better. When they grab the instrument, they like the feel much better, even if they do not know why at first. The bottom line is that players as a rule like small corpses and they like light ones, aside from tone anyway.
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Randall Shenefelt

[Michael Darnton]

That's it. It is available as a Dover reprint for not a whole lot of money: http://store.doverpublications.com/0486204251.html
There's a companion book about the Guarneri family that's not nearly as valuable or interesting, in my opinion, but is certainly worth the Dover price.

[Mark Sullivan]