Violin Forum/Message Board

Chet Bishop · Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:42 am Post subject:

Nope. Not gonna ba a problem. Smile

Have you bought Mr. Somogyi's books? they are costly, but a whoooole lot cheaper than winging it to Oakland. You could call him, too. I did, and he is very approachable and helpful
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

I received the Strad Titian poster today - amazing that it actually has CT scans of the original instrument.

Thanks for the heads up about these posters, it will be very useful.

Interestingly, I've just compared the fixer-upper I got to the Titian CT scan and although its slightly smaller, it looks very similar in terms of proportion.

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Hi all

I've got the belly of the old violin off and it looks like I was wrong about the quality.

The inside face of the belly is very roughly carved and the are no corner blocks on the c, just strips of wood.

I've also noticed that the neck is slightly twisted now I've got the finger board off.

Do I carve / scrape the inside of the belly smooth, make and fit corner blocks, and try to straighten the neck - or toss it and put it down to experience?[/u]

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: Introduction

I don't see any value in adding blocks from the inside, that's not the way to make a violin so you're not really practicing anything.

I'd practice removing/reattaching the top, remounting the neck, etc. These are things that will have value in the long run. Even practice varnishing, strip and varnish again. This takes you from theoretical to practice. Treat it like its your best friends favorite fiddle.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject:

You can, but its always better to go to the root of the problem. You might disassemble the neck from the body and remount. If you need to raise the fingerboard projection, then glue a couple mm of maple on the end of the neck that fits into the mortise and refit to the mortise. If there's a twist to correct, you'll obviously have some gaps in the ribs where the neck joins the upper block. You can take some odd rib material (you may have to find some maple) and match and fill. But its all good practice. No sense practicing something that isn't the best choice, i.e. manipulating the fingerboard, unless of course we're just looking at a mm or so. Of course, I can say all this not seeing exactly what the problem is.

There are some good tips on removing the neck from the mortise here on this site. It'll make this old fiddle worth a little more in the long run if done right.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject:

Steve... remember that the angle of the neck side to side (where the fingerboard glues on) is not always made to be parallel to the tops of the ribs. The traditional way was to have that surface angled slightly towards the treble side, but many current makers make it flat.... so maybe your neck is not twisted... just traditional?
Closeup pics would help us help you!
Cheers, Mat

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/yorkieyork/?action=view&current=Before.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/yorkieyork/th_After-1.jpg

Hope these links work OK

Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject:

I don't see enough twist to warrant making any adjustments. Like Matt says, a little lean to treble is acceptable, and the way some make them. I like the straight on neck because it allows you to cut the bridge with a little more wood under the E string. As a player I like it like that because the way I hold my violin in the orchestra -- if its cut too far to the treble side, I have to twist my body so not to have my lap in the way of playing on the E string.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Mat Roop · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject:

Steve... still hard to tell exactly where the twist is...
1- if the center of the neck does not line up with the end pin ( assuming end pin is centered), then that is normally fixed by resetting the neck. That means remove neck, glue top on, find center of body, hold bridge in correct position relative to bassbar with elastic, shim and adjust heel of neck until it lines up perfectly for elevation and centering on bridge. reglue neck.
The cheap fix of that ( for a cheap violin) is to break the joint between the button and back and about 3" either side... then pull the neck to center on the end pin and reglue.
2- If the twist is the concavity of the lengthwise surface where Fingerboard is glued, then that can be starightened by wetting and clamping and gluing on a staright FB.
3-As Dave said, The side to side twist looks OK
Cheers, Mat

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Thanks guys.

Looks like I'm over critical of the amount of twist.

I'll concentrate on the other problems and try and make the best of this rough little fiddle.

Not sure I'll be able to resist smoothing the inside of the sound board though, it looks like a mountain range at the moment.

Smile

Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:37 am Post subject:

I have smoothed them...I see no harm in that.

Does it also have an integral bass-bar? (that is, the bass-bar being carved as part of the plate, rather than a separate bar glued in place?) If so, I would seriously consider planing it out, regraduating the entire top, and installing a new, carved bass-bar. (See attached photos, wherein the first is the original plate in the condition it came to me, the second and third show the regraduated plate with a conventional bass-bar.)

You can only go so far-- if there are thin spots, you certainly don't want to make them thinner. But you can improve the sound and response, and not harm what (bear in mind) was not a valuable instrument the day it was brand new.

Those instruments were imported and sold with case and bow for about $2.50, when new. I really see no harm in the sort of correction I describe above. In the particular case of that instrument, it also required major repairs to the pegbox, as it had been badly damaged. But it was someone's great-aunt's violin, or something, and it was precious to them. They were delighted with the results, and the young man to whom it now belongs treasures it and plays it daily in a school orchestra.

BTW, if you look closely, you can see an unrepaired saddle crack threatening to become a bass-bar crack, in the upper photo. Hence the two cleats in the lower ones.
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

Mat Roop · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject:

I agree with Chet... If it has an integral bass bar, then for sure carve it out & regraduate the top. I've done lots of them and many turn out be be quite nice sounding violins... From a market value perspective, not worth the work that went into it, but I had fun, learned with each one and if it was a sentimental instrument the owner appreciates it that much more.
Cheers, Mat