Violin Forum/Message Board

[christianking]

I just received my violin wood from www.atelierduviolon.com and it came with 4 ribs. 1 was included as an extra. do i need to cut them down to certain lengths? How many rib sections should i use. Each rib is currently about 17.5 inches (444.5 mm). Help would be much appreciated.
_________________
Christian

[Andres Sender]

This great series will help you get a picture of how to proceed.

http://darntonviolins.com/viola.php?set_id=1

[mikemolnar]

Darnton's web site is a cornucopia of great concepts.

Nevertheless, a luthier should build a small library of useful books and printouts from such great sites. READ before making chips.

Mike

[Michael Darnton]

Yes, I think in this particular case, before a single cut is made to those ribs, the next purchase should be Courtnall and Johnson's "Art of Violin Making".
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Violin-Making-Chris-Johnson/dp/0709058764

[Janito]

Christian
How did you come across Mario Landry's wood?
Some of his soft maple wood has amazing tap tone.

[Dave Chandler]

I borrowed the books I needed from my local library through inter-library loan, cost only a couple bucks. That way I could look through them very cheaply before deciding which to buy. Something to think about.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[John Cadd]

Christian Leave the ribs as long as they are .The end parts will be useful for holding or gripping the ribs while you thin them down.
One odd tool to use for this gripping job is a clamp that welders use.The tool is like a molegrip but it has two large flat plates where the jaws are.I use this to pull the ribs through a scraper gadget .The gadget has a scraper blade fitted to a wooden pivot .This gives the correct angle for scraping but will "bottom out "eventually so that the thickness is exact.Adjustment screws are added to the sides.
I made this from scrap wood and I believe it was an idea used by the French.
The lowest edge of the scraper is at the centre.I keep the edge of the scraper slightly curved so you can move the ribs closer to the centre as they thin down.
I think the French name is Filliere.
The pivot action is ; pull the top of the wooden pivot with fingers and press the bottom of the pivot with thumb.The rib is fed along the base board .as the welding grips pull.This is purely for efficiency and comfort.The wood never slips.
Hold the base board in the clamp.
If you have a spare piece of rib wood lying around make it into an S shape and put it on the floor on it`s edge.with a board on top. You can stand on this without any breaking..This is good to realise how tough and efficient a violin can be.Knowing is good .Realising is even better.

[Oded Kishony]

I thin my ribs pretty much the way Michael does and I use a bit of double sided carpet tape to hold the rib to the bench whil I plane or scrape.

Instead of a block plane I use a Jack plane with a toothed blade because I get a more uniform rib thickness that way.

I've tried many different 'jigs' and sanding devices but simpler is always better IMHO.

Oded

[John Cadd]

Oded How do you define a jig? You surely use a jig to shape the fingerboard.How about setting the Neck angle?What do you use to hold the ribs together when making the sides?Is it an inside mold or an outside mold?That`s a jig.
Your bench is part of a jig if you glue a piece of wood down to hold it still.All I did was hold the scraper in position and move the wood instead.
If I put the plane into the vice upside down to run the edge of a sliver of wood across the blade to make life a little simpler ---that`s a jig.
If you quote Michael Darnton (not using jigs?) and also use a machine for doing the purfling then you are using not only a jig but a machine.Where does this bus stop? How far do you go before you hold up your hand and admit that you do not make your violins by hand? Who would worry about it?Did Stradivarius use a bandsaw?
Hand made really means the maker was not only employed by the firm .Not only at work that day ,but controlling what was happenning while it happenened right there in person ,present and correct.
Are machines OK and Jigs not OK?
All that talk would lead us into some kind of fundamentalist excesses.
But it is not good to be sniffy about the basic concept of Jigs.
By the way I think the Michael Darnton purfling machines are a really excellent idea.Don`t get me wrong.
I have never been a fan of bandsaws though unless for just straight cuts.
I smile when I see a new idea for a jig. Jigs are almost as much fun as violin making. I come in peace.

[Oded Kishony]

I don't have anything against 'jigs' per se, but I firmly believe that doing anything in a simpler and easier way is preferable.

In my opinion there is no need for a tool dedicated to thinning ribs, all one needs is a plane with a toothed blade and a bit of double stick tape. If there were a simpler way to do it I would adopt it.



Oded

[John Cadd]

Well Oded you win this one.Who am I to argue with a man who just got his picture in the Strad. Congratulations!

[John Cadd]

Here`s another thought,I`ve never had a flat toothed plane and double sided tape was not something I was aware of then.If a jig was awkward to make but easy to use would that count ? (in the easy framework).Do you count the making as well ? I made a really awkward looking jig for planing the plate wedges.It`s very easy to use though.Some people seem to struggle with that job.

[BK]

I am currently working on my first set of ribs. It has been a little bit challenging, but I suppose that is part of the learning curve, as with anything. My ribs were originally 3mm in width. It took me quite some time to get them down to 2mm. (I've only been working on the c bouts so far.)

I suppose that I may be doing this in an incorrect fashion because it seemed to be quite labor intensive and time consuming. I started off with a cheapy wood plane that I had purchased for another project from a Home Depots or Lowes. It was quite awful. The bottom of the tool was painted, so the paint leached off onto my wood and ruined my first piece. So then I decided to use my finger planes which are brass. This resulted in tearing the curly maple rather than cutting. So I purchased toothed finger blade and began my work again. This worked much better!! And, frankly, if you're planing the ribs, I'm not sure how you'd do this any other way than with a toothed plane. But, with that being said, it seemed to take a long time to get the ribs down to 2mm. So what I'm pondering is whether I should purchase a higher quality, full-sized wood plane from a company such as Lie-Nielsens. Would this be a recommended way to speed up the rib thicknessing process? If so, which size plane would you folks recommend purchasing?

Another question I had was, I only got the c bouts down to 2mm although I believe you're actually supposed to get them down to 1.5 to 1.3mm. Do you think I should bend them back straight again, get them down to 1.5mm and then bend them again for the C bouts? The reason I ask this is because at 2mm they may not vibrate properly, and the sound may be dampened.

Thanks All!
BK

[Michael Darnton]

You won't be able to bend them at 2mm, and it will be hard at 1.5mm. If you're making a Strad model, you should get down to 1mm. Del Gesu ribs are 1.5mm, but thinned more at the corners so they'll take the tight bends there.

I use an old Stanley 102 plane with a toothed blade. Check the pix: http://darntonviolins.com/viola.php?set_id=1
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[BK]

Perfect! Thanks again for the advice Michael!

BK