Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

I was surprised when the 3/4 turned up.Amazing how small a violin gets if the back in just one inch shorter .It looked like a toy . It was almost unused . i tackled the obvious things wrong in the last two days .It had very thin steel strings where the silk windings at the peg end were running onto the fingerboard by a few inches.
The bridge had not been fitted properly .Some obvious gaps showed under the feet.
Pegs were a bit higgledy piggledy.3 were not square to the neck and the end on view was just as bad .
The E string peg had a deep groove from the string pressure on cheap soft wood . I adjusted the peg angles and replaced the pegs with palmwood pegs that looked a lot better .Much harder .I won`t call it wood if it`s really grass .
I was later to discover the E peghole was badly placed and obstructed the D string and the A string. Now I need to re bush it before it`s even been used .
Some disagree about which way the maker`s name on a bridge should face. This one had the French name on the player`s side .No doubt about that. There is an ebony insert on the E string side . The back of a bridge should be flat for checking the correct vertical angle . But that side had all the adjustments to thickness .The fingerboard side was perfectly flat. That complicated the use of the bridge roller but it worked out as near vertical as it needs for now .

[John Cadd]

The string length was estimated and I assumed it would be 306mm Annoyingly the measurement chart gives 307mm.I like simple division and 6 won`t go into 7 very well .So I looked for an afterlength of 51 mm without a long digital waste of time . I wanted the tail loop to be movable but the Wittner tailpiece had a screw type nylon fixing with the end of the nylon melted in two blobs .Some traditions die hard .I put on a short stranded steel loop but soon realised the loop was still too long.I fitted the strings and the short strings were very quick and easy to tune .My new game is to pay attention to the after length which should have been 51mm.But it was only 46mm.
When I play the afterlength on the G portion it needs to match the open D a few octaves higher . But comparing using the bow it`s tuned to an F#.
The tailpiece is a 3/4 size .I may have to lose the Wittner with fine tuners and get a shorter wooden one that could be adjusted . Maybe the Wittner can have a new short tail glued on .
Oh I forgot the nasty little soundpost I had to reposition . It was the right length but a long way out of place.A crude wide grained piece with rucked up ends and tiny edge splinters .Nasty.There was no mark showing where the spike had held it . They must have a different method .
No ten year old could cope with all those problems .Can non playing parents learn to tune a small violin before they have a lesson ?

[John Cadd]

To make the 3/4 factory violin work better I took of the top . Both plates were thicker than necessary .The top was 5mms thick . The bassbar had dark flecks and the grain direction stuck out a mile. End on the grain slanted 45 degrees and lengthways the grain tilted about 30 degrees .I wondered if they had used pallet wood .The top was left square.Replacing this showed the fitting style.They used a milling machine to make a slot and popped the bassbar into that . No hot hide glue was used . I had to remove the Rosetti label (Made in Czechoslovakia in Luby).It was stuck on with supertough glue. Not possible to remove with moisture ,so it was shredded ..
The skinny linings around the lower bouts were hardly glued at all .Two sections ,both 10 cms long were loose.You could hear them rattle if you tapped the back .
Apart from the careless construction it is being respected as a proper violin . I want this one to work well .The wood is good .One slightly shocking thing is the total absence of any sandpapering around the ribs and linings . Rough as old boots is the phrase . Externally ,butter would not melt in it`s mouth .

[John Cadd]

Now the plates are reasnably the right thickness I checked some details before I glue the top on .. The centre line of the top is just missing the joint of the ribs at the bottom block (a bit left) . Also the end pin hole is a bit more left than the rib joint . So I have to fill the end pin hole and ream it out again in the right place . The new 3/4 bridge is still waiting .That will replace the tiny one that was there .Much too nattow for a 3/4 .

[John Cadd]

The tiny bridge that came with this 3/4 is a 1/2 size. The top of this bridge 38mm is the width that the feet should have been . I may be able to nudge the end pin sideways and use a thicker end pin. I have certainly crossed the line for a setup anyway .There is a stark contrast between this tiny 3/4 and the oversize 4/4 that I shortened for my smaller hand.(s) . The scale on both is identical but the shortened" large "violin with Octave strings sounds like a wonderful cello .The 2 lower strings are steel and the 2 uppers are silver wound gut.But the mixture is a perfect blend.
It seems odd that Octave string players need a heavier bow. I can get plenty of volume using the 3/4 size bow and I am not conscious of any extra pressure needed.

[John Cadd]

Before the top was glued back on I filled the end pin hole and then re drilled it in the "straight "position. The top was glued on and it all looks very straight until you look at the neck connection relative to the centre seam of the top .The neck is sitting 3 mm left of the centre line .
I`m not going to take off the neck. The fingerboard is still not fitted back yet but I will stay aware of this nasty feature as I assemble everything . I think the end pin misalignment would have affected the bridge position more . Well it`s closer to the bridge .

[John Cadd]

The fingerboard had been removed and after the end pin was fitted I suddenly noticed the end of the neck did not match the belly centre line .I put a paper label on the bridge position and marked the centre point between the sound holes. Checking the line from end pin through the bridge centre the neck lined up properly and the nut was in the right place . Big relief .The belly must have been fitted at an angle but the bridge will be in the right place .
the last thing I noticed about the neck surface minus the fingerboard was the sideways tilt .The thumb side was higher than the finger side.About 2 mms difference. That may be a design choice to make playing easier . So no change there .
A few taps on the belly showed this would be a resonant violin soon .

[John Cadd]

You see the possible problem ? Bottom line has to be ; Find the centre point for the bridge .Hope that agrees with the centre line of the neck ,and put the end pin in line with both the previous.
A centre line of the belly may not agree with the left and right bouts symmetry. Strictly speaking it should be symmetrical but factory violins are a law to themselves .It just pays to check everything with a factory violin first . I had my guard down this time and got lucky . So it will be a good violin .The wood is good enough to work well.I don`t need to be a complete optimist for that .
The varnish is hellishly hard though .but if anyone has old rosin stuck on the top ,try Tripoli Liquid which is water based .

[John Cadd]

Almost summing up time now .I still have not mentioned the saddle below the tailpiece .That was fitted out of line (Left of centre).When the neck is glued on , the end pin and saddle ought to be in line. So the offline saddle and the offline centre join plus the offline end pin are not doing their jobs . The centre join and saddle and end pin each had their own interpretation of the centre .All three were different. Think about that . A factory where they need to all get the parts in one straight line and then add a label including the Stradivari name which is disgraced .
Last money saver on the list but not so serious is the fingerboard which is a dark brown hardwood ,but not ebony .
But there was no scoop to avoid rattles or buzzes from the strings . Worse than that the nut to fingerboard join was not 90 degrees to the thumb curve at the pegbox . After removing the fingerboard (mainly to thickness the back )the refitting of the fingerboard left a tiny lip at the neck side showing the position had been wrong .The scroll side of the nut had been placed too far along the neck .That would not take long to correct in a repetetive factory setting if they had known or cared .Could they not bribe just one luthier to have a glance at all the misfits they were knocking out . But ignoring the centre seam and measuring the gap between soundholes gave a bridge on straight line between scroll and end pin.
I thought a Luby instrument would have been better than that . Needing far more than a setup .

[John Cadd]

Even this late I have forgotten to mention the rib join on the lower block. That vertical seam is generally spot on in line with the belly centre seam . Well not in this case . I would not rely on that as a reliable basis for positioning , but there is a psychological tendency to do just that . So that vertical seam is part of the visual confusion that existed . Centre seam of belly --Rib joint--End pin --bottom Saddle --All in various positions. But mainly the Neck line --Bridge Centre between soundholes--End pin are now working in a straight line . Of course any young kid could identify the problem in 5 minutes on a 3/4 violin .

[John Cadd]

Last item on the list is a new Bridge .I fitted the feet first and roughly cut the top down to a useful height .My Japanese chisel is wider than the bridge and is pefect for the basic slimming down .I trimmed the tiny details lower than the surface to begin with . It makes sense to protect those details before all the cutting starts. After the top section comes down to 2.5mms (thick enough for a 4.4 ) I change to a Sandvik scraper to thin the rest down.The scraper is oblong (about 7 cms long ) with a plastic cover clipped on the hand side.I don`t use that side at all .The working edge is sharpened to a 30 degree bevel on one side only and the edge is straight with the corners rounded off to avoid accidental scrapes and scratches .
This is a stiff scraper ,It`s useful for scooping a fingerboard as well .This scraper works better if you slide the edge across the direction of cutting .Is that a clear description? I cut across the bridge but the blade is also moving downwards which makes a diagonal slicing cut . Too many videos show gouges (curved gouges) pushing in a straight line without being twisted at the same time. By the way if you watch Japanese carpentry films they never trust the grain of the wood to split just where they want .Generally they will cut across the grain . That applies in bridge cutting .Especially trimming the feet .That needs a slicing ,gentle cut with minimal force . Holding the cutter right handed and taking the force from the left hand thumb keeps forces strictly in control instead of forcing from the right shoulder . That`s for chisels ,not for scrapers . These are useful details that you need to keep in mind all the time along with grain direction or mechanically exposed shapes and edges . Cutting and scraping should be separated from sandpapering which would ruin sharp edges with hard grit . Sandpaper comes at the end . Maybe better to avoid sandpaper completely .

[John Cadd]

I completed the work on the bridge.I only used Japanese chisels and a Sandvik scraper and a narrow knife to trim the inner foot shape . No sandpaper was used at all .
I just need to fit some better strings .I had no luck with the gut strings from India .They are far better for plucking instruments .They sound vibrant plucked but there is little clear sound when bowed. But metal wound strings sound much duller when plucked . There is a larger market fot Gut strings on plucked instruments .Try them on a mandolin to see what I mean .
So as it stands the new 3/4 violin is a good instrument . I wanted to use it on Bach Sonatas and Partitas without the stretching difficulties and chord complications .
The last clean up is to sort out the disturbed varnish around the edges where I steamed off the top .That went perfectly with no splinters .But the varnish was all done in one thick layer. Not even varnish remover dissolves it .

[John Cadd]

The strings on this violin are not designed for a 3/4 and that must affect the tone. I had fitted the sound post just after putting the top back on. But the position was well off .I should have known that .I drew a line across the inside of the back and the top to mark the correct post position . I used to do that years ago and have just seen anEdgar Russ video where he also does that .It creates a permanent reference point whether you put it there or somewhere else .
But this time I used a soundpost setter with a metal clip and an external handle that shows the vertical position . It`s a delicate thing .I clipped it onto the post while the strings were tensioned. Then slackened the strings .I dislodged the bottom of the post with a traditional post adjuster to avoid twisting the clip handle which is thin .The clip keeps the post vertical and pressing it in place is also done with the normal post that has a spike . But I only use the spike after the strings are tightened again just to release the clip tension .
The sound is a lot better with a 2 mm position behind the post .Now the post sits right on the line I marked . The top of the post is also on it`s line.
That soundpost job was the easiest and best I have ever done . K & Ks is one name for this setter . It needs to have a proper name but there are several on ebay . £30 was the price I paid . That`s average but I have seen one about £18 and another at £130 .That`s far from a joke .A quick way to make some money .

[John Cadd]

Now I have heard the 3/4 with a half finished bridge I sense the bridge is keeping something back .The feet are 4mm thick .the top edge is a bit too thick. The main top half is about 2.5 mm which is 4/4 thickness.
So I will make a cross section diagram 10 times real size and work out where to thin it down .I will draw the full size first and use the proportions to estimate the 3.4 size .It`s a sensible way to guess .I usually stop the full size weight at 2.8 grams. This 3/4 is 2.6 grams so it has plenty of room for alteration. I will stick to basic thickness first .Any changes in cutouts will be for later . I will be cautious as this my only 3/4 bridge.

[John Cadd]

I forgot to mention the diamond file I have used .Not very much ,just to work on the kidney decorations.(I have to add that the diamond file is flat and was most useful simply to get the edges down to the correct thickness. Nothing to do with any shaping of cutout curves --You see how one sentence can lead the reader astray ?)But the scraper has worked on those as well . I carefully worked upwards from the feet . My improvised thickness calculations came out very well .The diagram expanded the length bottom to top X3 and expanded the thickness X10 .It shows the way the bridge bulges .Then I estimated the reduced bulge .
At the halfway stage I changed to work down from the top .The 2.5 thick area is still there.To reduce the edge thickness I started with a steel file. Big mistake. The grain caught the file tooth as I used it almost in line across the top .A section of the top came off along the grain.About an inch long and 1/8th inch deep .It seemed familiar and remembered the top plate I repaired with glue and sticky tape .I laid green paper tape up the back and placed the splinter with tweezers so the tape would keep it stil . The tape acts like a hinge . I superglued the splinter and closed the tape over it . Now I will look to see what happened .