Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Steele]

Hi folks. Long time listener, first time caller

I've been reading voraciously in preparation for my first build, and slowly putting together the tools and material needed.
I've managed a good edge on my planes and chisels and now I'm onto the gouges. I've read alot of writing on the subject of sharpening, some of it conflicting (and I'm sure, not specific to violin making). After much consideration I've decided to follow Mr. Darnton's method, but I'm left with a question.
I recently read Leonard Lee's "The Complete Guide To Sharpening", and on the subject of gouges, he suggested that the working angle of the tool can be lowered, thus increasing the mechanical advantage, by introducing a 5 percent bevel on the Inside of gouges... still having a total bevel of, say 30 degrees by putting 25 degrees on the outside and 5 on the inside. The theory is, the angle is lowered while the thickness of the blade is retained, making it less subject to getting brittle.
Almost every other reference I read mentioned that no bevel should ever be applied to the inside of a gouge, or tragedy will ensue.
Being a neophyte, I have no opinion on this. But I'd like to hear yours !
Thanks
- John

[L P Reedy]

I found a Japanese gouge in my inventory the other day that is ground roughly that way. I haven't really used it but fail to see the point. I do have a number of incannel gouges that I find useful for certain jobs, mainly in scroll carving. I am aware that many people, including Michael, do not agree.

The only real reason I see for a small inside bevel is to clean up the edge to make sharpening easier. I don't understand the idea of "mechanical advantage."

[kjb]

good topic , I am glad you brought it up.

yes I am re-reading his book on gouges also, I think the mechanical advantage was at a lower hand angle to the wood would give you more power, if that makes any sense. Pushing more in a straight line less acute angle.

do you have different angles for different jobs , or are most of your gouges at a certain angle.

for sharpening/polishing the inside do you use a dowel with compound or a diamond or stone? I am curious as to the different ideas anyone has also.

It helps me to see things from different perspectives to understand it better.

[Michael Darnton]

There's no strong functional reason not to do tbat, but when I am gouging I'm pushing so hard that if the angle is too low I'm constantly banging my knuckles on the work.
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[John Steele]

Thank you, all.

kjb, I'm a rank beginner, so I guess my angles are yet to be determined. I picked up a very cool cone-shaped slip stone from Lee Valley for the inside of gouges, and also a nice new 6X1" white waterstone. It's for an ancient hand grinder I resurrected last week- took it all apart and cleaned it carefully, and now it's whirring away like it was new.
We'll see how they turn out. Thanks again, all
- John

[wm_crash]

I find incannel gouges easier to sharpen while clamped in a vise, and using a small piece of rounded abrasive. You can go with sandpaper, or you can go with DMT Flexi-Sharp Sheets, just roll around a dowel. To finish off, wrap some leather around a dowel and use that as a strop.

Other people have no trouble with cone shaped stones or DMT Wave. I just find it easier to handle the abrasive, as opposed to handling the tool.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan