| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: Unknown violin maker? |
 |
|
I picked up an old violin recently that needs some work but I am unable to locate any information about it that will help me decide whether or not it is worth fixing.
The only markings on it are inside written in ink: "Morris Walker maker 1903".
Has anyone heard of Morris Walker?
Any help appreciated!
Ron |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mat Roop
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown violin maker? |
|
|
| oneelkruns wrote: | I picked up an old violin recently that needs some work but I am unable to locate any information about it that will help me decide whether or not it is worth fixing.
Any help appreciated!
Ron |
Perhaps the repaired violin itself will determine if it was worth fixing - even more than who it's historical maker was...
What attracts you (if anything does) to this violin, to begin with?
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
@mat: Thanks for the link.
I neglected to state that we found the violin in Denver, CO, but with 110 years on it, it could have come from anywhere. Someone did play it a lot, once upon a time.
@ctviolin:
Your comment echoes my daughter's (she's the violinist in the family, guitar is my thing). There is merit in that view, naturally, but before I put hundreds into it, if it can be restored at all, I'd be interested in knowing its background.
The violin and case were once wet. There would have to be some re-gluing, but there appears to be old mold inside which I'm not sure can be cleaned (?)
It does have all the original hardware and bridge but the head appears a bit twisted, probably because of the water damage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oneelkruns wrote: | @mat: Thanks for the link.
I neglected to state that we found the violin in Denver, CO, but with 110 years on it, it could have come from anywhere. Someone did play it a lot, once upon a time.
@ctviolin:
Your comment echoes my daughter's (she's the violinist in the family, guitar is my thing). There is merit in that view, naturally, but before I put hundreds into it, if it can be restored at all, I'd be interested in knowing its background.
The violin and case were once wet. There would have to be some re-gluing, but there appears to be old mold inside which I'm not sure can be cleaned (?)
It does have all the original hardware and bridge but the head appears a bit twisted, probably because of the water damage. |
Yes, I would look into the history also, that's for sure.
But, my own opinion is that the potential of the violin as it stands right now, by itself, usually tells me more about whether it is going to be worth a quality rebuild or not. As, a name is much usually less a guarantee of quality and workmanship, than the object itself shows. And when a violin shows an evidence of much playing in the past - that itself is almost a guarantee of a certain (high) level of playing quality potential.
Perhaps(?)
Old mold? If it is indeed old and not active any more - it's effects - when on the inside - can often be dealt with currently.
One of my methods is pure (if you can get ahold of any) alcohol as a surface cleaner. I use it on a rag or q-tip, almost dry. I like to use it on a solid surface, avoiding working directly on the joining seam, or any repairs, if possible. And, the point is not to allow the chemical to soak into the wood, as you work to remove the old dried out mold residue from the surface. If it's into the wood proper, oh well, such is the result of age and water. It is what it is, and in a way, this also is an independent thing from who the maker is/was.
Of course - the value can be there if the collect-ability factor is high, regardless of the playing factors that may be brought out. A case that must be considered when deciding if YOU want to work on this, or if you want to turn it over to a real pro. (not me and apparently not you either)
My method(s) are delineated here - and are not to be confused with a highly - technically trained professionals probable method(s). Oh well, there you go.
Of course, the center joins of the plates will be held, most likely, with a full strength water based (hide) glue, It will be best to let them as alone as possible. They are currently good? If they are separated or require regluing, that's another thing (and another thread) altogether.
The rib/lining surfaces I would clean and bring back to a "virgin" gluing surface without a lot of concern about separation between them, because you will be dealing with a solid 1/4" contact area, that can easily be re-glued and re-clamped in any case where needed. And very often, on 100+ year old violins, there needs to be at least some lining re-gluing.
As far as the neck having a warp or twist in it... that will also need separate handling if present. Is The ebony fb solidly adhered to the neck, or does it have some monkey-gluing going on also? It may well have adopted the twist- or it may have let loose, and was re-glued without fixing the underlying problem first - another common miss-fix.
I'd love to see some photos of this old bird - if you get a chance.
These are my absolute favorite type of repair jobs, whenever I happen to get a hold of one of them.
Thanks for posting about this, and I would welcome any further conversation about the "correct methodology" concerning this type or this level of working.
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
@ctviolin:
I'll try and get some pictures together tonight. I'd appreciate your opinion on the instrument. Thanks for taking an interest!
Ron |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| oneelkruns wrote: | @ctviolin:
I'll try and get some pictures together tonight. I'd appreciate your opinion on the instrument. Thanks for taking an interest!
Ron |
Very cool, Ron.
Realize that I'm a string guy, and that I'd probably have that bad boy torn apart in any case, from the start...
You're probably wise looking into its relative worth first.
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mat Roop
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CT is right on... may I emphasize 2 points...
1- When you use alcohol, be sure your violin is finished with oil based varnish, otherwise, a simple small drip or run will ruin the finish faster than you can blink!
2- it is normal on some especially older violins to have the neck slightly tilted towards the treble side to make it easier to reach the bass side... perhaps that is what you are seeing as a twist of the head?
Pics Please!
Cheers, Mat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
@Mat:
I wouldn't dare think of working on it myself. I didn't know that about the neck, either. That's good, perhaps it isn't warped after all.
@ct:
I'll really try to get the pictures today!
Ron |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oneelkruns wrote: | @Mat:
I wouldn't dare think of working on it myself. I didn't know that about the neck, either. That's good, perhaps it isn't warped after all.
@ct:
I'll really try to get the pictures today!
Ron |
Well, pictures can often help us knuckleheads identify, much more quickly in many cases, work that may be the work of an individual, from the obvious work that looks like standard factory or imported (say Chinese, or even European) factory work.
Very often, it is possible to quickly or more accurately determine the probable date of manufacture, simply from a photo, also. Not always mind you - there are many many thousands upon thousands of various possibilities out there to stumble on to.
So, even though photos are not usually a guarantee of anything - they can help narrow down what we're actually looking at MUCH more quickly than just a basic written description can.
The only better method, of course, is to be able to examine the violin itself firsthand.
Then too, as I have already hinted at; the individual playing qualities can be hidden behind ANY possible facade - good or not so good, expensive or not-so-expensive. Which is why evidence of much past playing, can most often, be a very valid clue to indicate what playing possibility's are extant presently.
Violins - gotta love ém!
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@ct:
The pictures are big, so I put them on a web page:
http://24.9.24.114/violin/
As I look at them, I'm no longer sure the last name is "Walker". I'm
curious to know what you think (and everyone else!)
Thanks!
Ron |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mat Roop
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting....
Does the violin have corner blocks rear & front?
The flaming on the neck would indicate the neck is made in two pieces.... or is the flaming an applied faux flame?
If it was mine it would be apart, repaired and reassembled real quick!...
I hesitate to give my opinion as violin provenance is not my expertise...
I am sure better folks than I will offer some opinion.
Curious to see what other think!... Cheers, Mat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneelkruns
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
>Does the violin have corner blocks rear & front?
>The flaming on the neck would indicate the neck
>is made in two pieces.... or is the flaming an applied faux flame?
I would have to check on the blocks (assuming I know them when I see them). No idea on the flame on the neck, either.
The only crack we see is by one of the tuners, but I suspect that could be fixed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ken Pollard
Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 79
Location: Nampa, Idaho
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The A-peghole crack would give me some pause on this one. It's a typical place to break, and one I always look for when considering buying a used instrument. It can be an expensive repair. It can also be done quite cheaply -- glue & nails/dowels, bailing wire -- which hardly ever works and makes a decent repair even harder to do.
If you do not fix it, you will eventually crack all the way around the pegbox.
The direction of the crack is a bit unusual, indicating to me that there is some squirrely grain there. That might be also responsible for the somewhat weird tilt of the neck -- or maybe it was carved that way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oneelkruns wrote: | >Does the violin have corner blocks rear & front?
>The flaming on the neck would indicate the neck
>is made in two pieces.... or is the flaming an applied faux flame?
I would have to check on the blocks (assuming I know them when I see them). No idea on the flame on the neck, either.
The only crack we see is by one of the tuners, but I suspect that could be fixed. |
Ok, here's my opinion;
I would fix this back to playable condition.
It may or may not be a valuable piece, but I don't think that's what, in the main, is being asked about.
But - it isn't a usual or typical "factory piece" either.
I must admit, I was wondering about the flame in the wood also. I recommend that you, the owner, simply take a careful close look to decide if this is truly an element that is in the wood - or - if it is a painted on design element....
Old violins sometimes have a skilled hand dealing out "flame" with a brush. If you take some time you'll see that a real "flame" is in the maple and will move around and has depth, and a painted-on flame, is simply a painted on element.
No a great stretch to determine this.
But what I can see, has some interesting personality to it. More than this - I wouldn't care to venture without having the instrument here to look at.
Another thing to consider is this;
I wouldn't accept a high quote on repairs either, from a music shop. It could be done reasonably - if they (whoever) IS asking a really high price - consider asking them if they are interested, what would they pay for it in its present condition?
You'll start to get an idea of whether or not THEY think (or realize) that you have something valuable, or are just giving you a typical or 'blown up' violin repair quote.
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
