Violin Forum/Message Board

Ken Pollard

Fairly old now, but new to me, and maybe to some of you. Interesting interview.

http://rachelbartonpine.libsyn.com/episode-48-woodworms-and-the-three-s-s-luthier-paul-becker-discusses-violin-maintenance-restoration-and-tonal-adjustment

I guess to add to the topic of edgework that Craig has started, I'll say I listened to the podcast while I was hunched over the bench trying to scrape the channel in my current top. Finally got to the point where I begin to understand what Michael was talking about 'uphill and downhill' on the channel at the workshop a couple years ago. I'm a slow learner.

Overhead view, yesterday, after purfling and before starting the channels.

ctviolin · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:49 pm Post subject:

How very cool, Ken.

Here's one vote that you take us through the entire process as you complete it. Do you scrape the ENTIRE channel?

I'm watching.

Craig T
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Ken Pollard · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject:

Shoot, my edgework is not at all refined. I was commiserating with you, Craig, on the difficulties in getting something nice. I’m really not happy with what I’ve done so far.

I can tell you what I have done on this one. I don’t like the rotary cutter, so I get the purfling pedestal down to about 4-1/2 mm with flat-bottomed thumb-planes, though I leave it a little thicker in the corners.

I cut the purfling channel with a Dremel tool in a International Violin jig, which cuts most of the channel except for the very corners nor across the button. Do that by hand.

After the purfling is glued in, I took the platform down to 4 mm, except the corners, to clean it up a bit. I like to be able to see what’s going on.

I set my compass to 2 mm, and penciled a line between the edge and the purfling. This is to mark the crest.

Then I set the compass wider to mark the inside of the channel. I didn’t measure this, but kinda eyeballed it.

Then, because I am artistically challenged, I set the compass to put a third line, midway between these two. This is the center line of the channel, something I can’t see without actually having it there (the artistically challenged part). So, I have a curve to follow with my gouge. I’ve found that makes my channels much smoother.

I have standard ho-hum “Swiss Made” gouges from Woodcraft. I used a #5 sweep to cut the channel in the upper and lower bouts, and a #7 in the C-bouts. One thing I’ve learned from Michael is to use the biggest tool you can at each step.

I tried to clean that up as much as possible with the gouges, ignoring the corners. In the first photo of my original post, you can still see the compass marking of the crest on the corner.

So, the ‘uphill and downhill’ part -- with scrapers I’m running one direction on the inside of the channel, and the other way on the outside. And still my scrapers aren’t sharp enough to avoid tearing in some places. The neck area and end-block area is particularly touchy.

No fooling: I listened to the entire podcast while scraping, and still didn’t finish. Probably have at least that much time to go on it before I can ignore it and look at it again later.

And then to round the outside edge ....

ctviolin · Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:47 am Post subject:

Will L · Junior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2011 Posts: 22

Hi Ken,

I missed seeing you this year. There's always next year!

On scraping:
I spent a whole week scraping and finally understood, after all these years, that if I think of the scraper as a polynesian craft guided by skill and experience over waves that are continually fighting me in every direction I get a better result than if I think of it as a power craft that can just plow through anything in a straight line if I force it enough. I started letting the wood tell me what I had to do with the scraper and when I had to lighten up or slow down or find another angle. I became willing to change course much more quickly and be satisfied with getting less done with each stroke. In the long run it is faster, causes less chipping, and gets better results.

I'm not offering this assuming you or anyone else hasn't already figured scraping out, but I certainly hadn't, so maybe someone will benefit from this.

Until this sunk in I hated scraping, and now—though it's still not my favorite thing—I like it a lot more.

Ken Pollard · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:27 pm Post subject:

Hi Will,

I have my deposit in for the first week, 2014 -- Southern California Violin Makers Workshop, that is, just in case someone here hasn't read of it. And I hope you will be there, too.

I've actually learned a lot about scraping working on those silly pochettes. Finished my second one last week. And you are right, paying attention to the attack angle is crucial. I found that if I simply keep going in one direction, I can increase the bumps, much the way that heavy trucks 'washboard' asphalt roads. Not that I've figured out much. Still a long ways to go on my detail work.

Sharp is really important, too. I seem to be able to sharpen the thicker scrapers easier than the thin ones. Maybe I should just stay with the sword fragments. Smile

ctviolin · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject:

Yes, well there is definitely a certain time for scraping, and, definitely a time when scraping is not (or, is no longer) the action called for.
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Will L · Junior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2011 Posts: 22

That's great to hear, Ken,

I am planning on it. And I still owe you a 1540(or whatever that number is). Smile

Will L · Junior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2011 Posts: 22

That's great to hear, Ken,

I am planning on it. And I still owe you a 1540(or whatever that number is). Smile

violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

Thanks for the link to the PodCast!!!

Have you read from Roger Hargrave's library on working the purfling?

Might help you. Click on the PDF with this tittle:

"The Labels
The Edge and Purfling
The Varnish
Conclusion
Notes" - http://www.roger-hargrave.de/Seiten/english/Bibliothek/Bibliothek.htm

http://www.roger-hargrave.de/PDF/Book/Chap_06_Labels_PRN.pdf

Ken Pollard · Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:29 am Post subject:

Thanks, violinarius. Two violins back, I tried following Roger Hargrave's edge method, and I liked it. I say 'tried' because the main limitation was my skill. I should reread that now to pick up more bits of info that I might better understand.

It did give a nice sharp edge with good drop-off into the channel. I just need to do about 20 more to begin to understand what works and what doesn't.

Will, it's 1554, by New Belguim Brewing. I don't know why you owe me one, but I'm sure you're right and I will do my part by drinking it.

Will L · Junior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2011 Posts: 22

Ken,
You were always providing something in the way of amusement, information, or perhaps the loan of a tool, or just general moral support. I kept saying I was going to show my appreciation by getting you a beer of your choice, but we'd always come to the end of the session and I never got around to it. But I haven't forgotten.

Ken Pollard · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:04 am Post subject:

Immoral support, more likely, Will. And I'm pretty sure that I borrow far more of your tools then you do of mine. Plus, I've pretty much run out of those Will Logan labels I've been putting in my Chinese whites. Could you send a few more?

On a maybe more useful tool note, I've really come to appreciate my camera. Something similar to recording yourself playing -- you hear/see things that you don't in the moment, in real life. Yesterday, I scooped out the top, then punched holes through and started roughing the stems. By the time I finished the day, I thought I was pretty close. Took a photo. Put the photo up on the computer screen, and all sorts of flat spots jump out at me. So, with that, and fresh eyes this morning, I'll see if I can really screw it up.