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actonern
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 Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: Underside hollowing of the fingerboard |
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The June 2013 issue of the Strad magazine has a poster of an 1865 J.B. Vuillaume cello.
The side profile shot makes it possible to see that the underside of the fingerboard continues on a flat plane for what looks like about 30 mm before the beginning of a scoop that continues to the end of the board.
I've noticed this extended flat section in other professionally set up instruments, and yet the "books" seem to suggest that the gradual scoop should begin at the point that the ebony leaves the neck root.
I'm wondering if there is some "set-up secret" to why this is done one way vs. another... is there an acoustic purpose in other words?
Thoughts?
Best regards,
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L P Reedy
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Location: Brevard, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I've asked almost the same question elsewhere about the Titian Strad violin (shown clearly in the CT scan) and the only answer I got was to "ask whoever did it." That was really helpful. I've always extended the hollow, currently starting about 10 mm from the neck because I read that somewhere, but I have no evidence whatever that it makes a difference. I'm probably wasting my time. |
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kjb
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| well I guess it lowers the weight a bit? |
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ctviolin
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Underside hollowing of the fingerboard |
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| actonern wrote: |
I've noticed this extended flat section in other professionally set up instruments, and yet the "books" seem to suggest that the gradual scoop should begin at the point that the ebony leaves the neck root.
I'm wondering if there is some "set-up secret" to why this is done one way vs. another... is there an acoustic purpose in other words?
Thoughts?
Best regards,
E |
In my opinion, this is simply the result of how the board comes from the manufacturer.
MANY makers do not care to touch or alter the existing underside, leaving the scoop exactly as it came...
On the other hand, there are many makers that consider this unnessary material, that needs to go - and remove it.
Two distinct "looks" here.
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Chet Bishop
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: |
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For what it is worth; I thin mine back nearly to the end of the neck.
I like the results, but have no idea if they have anything to do with the thinning...perhaps they are the cumulative result of all the other things I do. Too many variables.
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ctviolin
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Chet Bishop wrote: | For what it is worth; I thin mine back nearly to the end of the neck.
I like the results, but have no idea if they have anything to do with the thinning...perhaps they are the cumulative result of all the other things I do. Too many variables. |
Yeah, I have to agree with this.
Since I like to have control over everything, and don't like to leave a lot to "chance", I also thin my own fb's back scoop back.
On the other hand, I leave them alone when repairing a typical finished violin (with a factory board) or, when replacing a school instruments factory boards.
It's just a personal decision. (one of many hundreds of *cumulative* (as Chet mentions) - variables that have to be decided on and done along the way, on something I want my name on)
ct
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:45 am Post subject: |
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The weight of the board has a lot to do with the sound, but I'm more worried about boards that are too thin than ones that are too thick. Me, I hollow the board underside to a thickness of 4.7mm, up as far as I can get and still get gracefully out of it before I get to the end of the heel, leaving about 6mm or so of flat at the end of the scoop.
There are a lot of people working with tuning boards, but from what I can read, there's serious disagreement about what is good. One team says the board absolutely does need to be a certain pitch; the other team says it absolutely is better if it does not.
I settle to working to the standards that have been developed over a couple of hundred years by the best shops, that they use because they work; no tuning voodoo. :-)
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Janito
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Darnton wrote: | | Me, I hollow the board underside to a thickness of 4.7mm, up as far as I can get and still get gracefully out of it before I get to the end of the heel, leaving about 6mm or so of flat at the end of the scoop. |
Is this for a cello? |
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Michael Darnton
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actonern
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Michael:
In your experience, do musicians notice a change in their instrument when a fingerboard is re-shot?
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Not really. Dressing the board requires taking the whole setup down, and I think that the combination of temporary (violins will almost always sound brighter and more lively for a day or two after) and permanent (from not getting things back EXACTLY as they were before) changes from doing that should be enough to confuse any player on this issue.
However, in my experience, they definitely notice the difference when they get a new board because the old one was too thin.
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ctviolin
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Darnton wrote: |
There are a lot of people working with tuning boards, but from what I can read, there's serious disagreement about what is good. One team says the board absolutely does need to be a certain pitch; the other team says it absolutely is better if it does not.
I settle to working to the standards that have been developed over a couple of hundred years by the best shops, that they use because they work; no tuning voodoo.  |
Yeah, I'll agree with this also - but lack the "working in any of the best shops" aspect.
Well, unless you want to consider my own shop in the... - well, let's just skip that aspect - ok?
My boards simply get worked, in order for the violin to be what I want & the weight I want.
And personally, what I usually want, is a board that has a proper long arch (the curved surface - the length of the top), appropriate width, and "appropriate" thickness. Appropriate for comfort and playing that is.
The underside continuation of the scoop that's there when you buy them as blanks from a dealer, up to the neck root, (in addition to some additional thinning of the "whole" at the onset) helps me keep the total weight (of the violin) within the range I want.
What's historically correct?, I'm not sure what is appropriate for that. Haven't MOST all original fb's been replaced along the line somewhere (probably at least once?) for various reasons?
Curious.
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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That statement wasn't a put down. It's just recognition of the fact that when an instrument is worth several million dollars, a few days or even weeks of work and trial and error trying to maximize its performance isn't a prohibitive expense, so this kind of thing happens, and better overall knowledge of what's going on falls out of it, especially since that type of instrument is very responsive to changes, and really announces if it's working or isn't.
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L P Reedy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| So, Michael, your implication is that the fingerboard on the Titian was installed by a second-rate shop? I'm still surprised that it has been left that way. |
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actonern
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, L.P.... I don't understand... what's going on with the Titan?
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