Violin Forum/Message Board

[actonern]

I'd be interested in getting opinions on the issue of tuning a bridge to a particular instrument.

Some respected makers say they cut a bridge to a "classic" shape, trim it out per these requirements and go no further...

I've been playing around quite a bit in this area and find that quite a lot can be done to "shape" the instrument's feel and response, if not even more... and I'm talking about final tuning, not the initial trimming out part.

I'm especially surprised at how trimming a bridge in a specific area can bring (for example) a violin with a kind of wah wah bowing response to something quite a bit better, with that nice bow "tug" on the string before the note starts.

I'm also amazed at how little wood removal is necessary to bring this about.

Any opinions?

Best regards,

Ernie

[Michael Darnton]

I usually cut a pretty conservative bridge, strang 'er up, and see what I think (being conservative at the start saves me from wishing I'd cut less). If I think changes are called for, I go back and cut some more. Especially with cello bridges, I try to leave the cello strung up for a couple of days and see what shakes out, since cellos are really sensitive to bridge changes, but also react a lot to having the tension off.

So, tell me about that "wah wah" thing. I don't understand what you are talking about, but once you tell me what that means, I certainly am going to want to know how to fix it!
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[actonern]

By "wha wha" I'm trying to describe an instrument that has no initial resistance to the note starting from the bow. It just sort of goes easy back and forth without that "crunch" or tug resistance. (I apologise for poor descriptive skills... I've never heard or read about this... a sort of self discovery.)

From players that I've had feedback from, they prefer a bow feel that gives some resistance to the start of a note.

Those little strips of wood (again forgive me I don't know what they're called) that point inward from the outer circles and are commonly trimmed to a point... that's where I've found there is a large ability to affect the instrument's response.

I saw some violin bridges on Violinbridges.co.uk that have a long and extending little "strip" and some are cut quite blunt, even if still to a point.

I found that cutting these little "points" shorter and shorter has the effect of bringing that "tug" I'm trying to describe into "focus" and a slight bit more cut... it goes back to "wah wah." Cut a bit more and it comes back... and out...

In other words, it seems to be a quite influential place that the instrument can be adjusted for player feel when strung up and in tune.

Am I nuts???

[Michael Darnton]

Yes, you are nuts.

But I am still going to try this out and see if anyone notices.
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[actonern]

Save me Michael!!!!

Seriously, I'd be thrilled to see what you think of this after you've given it a whirl...

E

[Janito]

I am interested to know how all the other variables are controlled.

So how do you do it - take the bridge off and trim or in situ trimming?

[actonern]

"in situ..."


Before stringing up, the bridge is trimmed out... including sharpening of the points, but not shortening of them.

When I'm satisfied with the post placement and overall balance of the sound, I take a 1/8 inch chisel, and cut ever so slightly an amount off the points, effectively shortening the tip, but still keeping the point centred in the bridge. To be clear, I do this while the instrument is strung up...the chisel can easily make the cuts I'm describing without putting anything in jeopardy... plus, I don't want to be unsure a) whether I can remember from time to time what the previous adjustments sounded like were I to take down and set up each time and b) the effect of detuning the strings and tuning up to pitch again introduces sound effects of its own, which is I'm guessing why Janito asked the question.

Try playing... if not happy repeat.

The amounts that are removed to effect the result I'm describing is amazingly tiny. As I said earlier, as you trim and test, the bow response will get better and worse as you go... you get to decide where "best" is.

To me its a big enough deal that I wouldn't regard my setup complete till I've done it.

Since I don't know how to work the photo posting for this site I've attached a URL... about 4 lines down is a bridge that has a yellow circle around the area I'm talking about.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=violin+bridge&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=6VwOUYGELuTWyQG6goGABA&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1304&bih=747

If you look at the variety of trim work on the better cut bridges at Violinbridges.co.uk you'll see a big variety of point lengths...

I'm certainly not holding forth as the discoverer of a new planet here... hold off with the hosanas if you must ...I just find this little bit of wood remarkably "tunable" for bow response...
E


(Here is a "short" cut example)

http://www.violinbridges.co.uk/search3.php?bridgeID=195&pos=0&instrument=all&stampText=francais&country=anywhere&search=search

(And here a "long" cut example)

http://www.violinbridges.co.uk/search3.php?bridgeID=713&pos=1&instrument=all&stampText=machold&country=anywhere&search=search

[ctviolin]

[Lemuel]

That's pretty interesting Ernie... I'll have to share this with the luthiers I work with.

This thread reminds me of another thread discussing whether there was a difference in sound
between Strad and Guarneri model bridges. Michael had mentioned that there would be no
difference in the sound.

http://www.violins.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I still haven't been able to test this out. However when I discussed it with Leif, he told me that
it will make a difference on a Baroque instrument (like putting race wheels for racing cars).

[actonern]

What I'm trying to describe is nicely illustrated starting at 1:04 - 1:12 or so on the attached recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlmxJvxMWhQ

There's a nice "tug-pop" effect to the note's starts...

Some players have described it to me as "tension" ... a bow feel that allows cleaner and more incisive articulation...

[ctviolin]

[ctviolin]

I will say that - on the other hand - I have run into bridges that (trimmed well or not) just don't sound that good on a particular violin...

For no real reason I can immediately tell.

Most often, in my experience, putting a stiffer bridge on solves the problem. I have come to flexing bridges in half right where the waist is, and bridges that flex there too easily, can be weak on the violin.

This is a particular gripe of mine, and is one reason why I tend to use decent quality Aubert bridges (no, not necessarily the most expensive ones) - as the wood seems much more well chosen.
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[ollieken]

I have read a lot on one thing or another to response of violins (fiddles ) when bowing. True you have to have a good set up & a good fiddle (Violin).

I have not seen a lot on a having a good bow & rehair job .

I think when i hear a person play in a concert & making a lot of
quick notes that we wish we could . I have to think that the person must have a very good bow that respond`s well & would not be like a bow that you can buy at Wal Mart .
I have a bow Albert Nornberg & I find a big differance from my other bow`s

Anyone have an opion on this Maybe michal Darton .. Ct .. Mat Roop
would like to hear coment`s from bowmaker`s Ken

[ctviolin]

[actonern]

Here's a link to the effect I'm describing far better than the earlier one...

It starts at about 50 seconds in... listen to Zukerman's "bite"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Azq-Lu9S3o