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L P Reedy
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Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 276
Location: Brevard, NC
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I assume these blobs of added weight are in line with the weight of wood removed in normal fluting of the wings. Otherwise, I fail to see any relevance. |
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| L P Reedy wrote: | | I assume these blobs of added weight are in line with the weight of wood removed in normal fluting of the wings. Otherwise, I fail to see any relevance. |
Relevance... interesting.
Actually, I'm working with what I would guess is a slight addition to what the weight amount of wood MIGHT NORMALLY be removed in this area if someone thinned it in an attempt to somehow "tune" it. If their intention were to leave the area heavy - who knows?
Just for the fun of it, I'll post a picture of what I did & how.
I still have a bit more (#'s WISE) to try - but it doesn't look like there's going to be anything especially odd to report from my end...
At least from my perspective.
No one has actually done this here (other than me) yet?
Are these all guesses so far?
No one willing to say what actually happens - other than "I think maby this or that?"
Interesting. Simple proof available either way.
Tomorrow might prove more interesting that the "research" done here.
Even if no one says anything positive either way right now - I'll post my observations tomorrow, and then we'll see what the opinions are.
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Again I will say; I am interested - I hope no one takes what I say so far as a personal attack.
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Janito
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ctviolin wrote: |
Even if no one says anything positive either way right now - I'll post my observations tomorrow, and then we'll see what the opinions are. |
Please read the bottom of the previous page.
The size, thickness and shape of wings vary greatly - it's more than just fluting and mass.
Has anyone put tiny blobs on the wings of the Ole Bull? |
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DonLeister
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Craig,
I have experimented some with adding temporary tiny clay weights on the wings and yes it does change the 'flavor' a little. It was a few years ago and it left me with more questions rather than answers.
However it does point at yet another area of the belly that I need to give some attention to , on the outside as well as on the inside. It is easy to be a little sloppy around the wings. I think along the lines of what Molnar said, keep them light and stiff.
It's another thing I keep meaning to look at closely when I have a Strad in my hands which is pretty rare. : ) |
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| DonLeister wrote: | Craig,
I have experimented some with adding temporary tiny clay weights on the wings and yes it does change the 'flavor' a little. It was a few years ago and it left me with more questions rather than answers.
However it does point at yet another area of the belly that I need to give some attention to , on the outside as well as on the inside. It is easy to be a little sloppy around the wings. I think along the lines of what Molnar said, keep them light and stiff.
It's another thing I keep meaning to look at closely when I have a Strad in my hands which is pretty rare. : ) |
Yes, as with just about any aspect of the violin, it remains a point that can be argued, for and/or against whatever claim is being made for it.
In my opinion so far, I would have to agree essentially with what you're saying here, (probably not surprising anyone) I find that yes, it can have a tonal effect, (putting clay ANYWHERE - including ff hole wings) on the finished violin, varnished and set up for playing...
But with what I have found on my own violins - is that the tonal effect is essentially random - in effect, it is much like putting the clay mass anywhere on the surface of the belly. You can find areas where there is an effect - no matter how small.
I intentionally kept from trying to add this mass anywhere near or on the bridge. Since that can easily open up another avenue of experimentation.
I would guess that you could eventually find an area where a additional weight might be beneficial to (any tonal aspect) of the violin - but in my opinion, such a change doesn't have a generally beneficial effect on anything... Even on the violins where I did find a change in tone might be found, when the violin was simply played, there really was no change in the tonal output that could be noticed - the basic nature of the fiddle didn't change.
Although, I will go so far as to say that a detectable change in (some at random) tones can be detected when you stop and play careful scales and inspect and compare each note individually...
Even then, when played as an instrument - or when playing music - such small tonal differences simply disappear as a tonal characteristic.
So, for me it's an interesting point - yes, changes in weight on the ff hole wings, can alter the tonal response in a manner that small weights can be discovered to alter the tone in tiny ways. as if the wood was left thicker there.
But for me that is simply a naturally expected reaction in something that is carefully thickness-ed to begin with and thickness-ed extremely intentionally to respond in a particular way....
But I don't find a tweeter-like overall treble response particularly present in the ff hole wings.
At least in my own violins - but then again I naturally leave them a bit, hmm, I guess I'd say well established, and, well dimpled.
Anyone here intentionally thin them somewhat, for tonal reasons? I'm curious, if you do, what benefit is there, and does it have anything to do with treble response?
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