Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

I have been using some varnish from LeFranc & Bourgois and thought it would be good to recommend it to beginners. It is clear glossy picture varnish based on linseed oil and copal resin.It is easy to use and even without any black light box to speed the drying it behaves very well. If left alone for a few weeks it is well dry.About day 3 the surface already has a non sticky feel. Make that 2 days for a very light touch . ( Call that stage --insect proof ) I usually brush some on a spare piece of wood at the same time so It can be tested independant of the violin. I noticed in the first use that there were a few tiny "lumps "on the surface. Not caused by insects or dust but from the tiny top rim of the bottle against the cap. It has a plastic clicky medicine bottle cap. The contact between bottle and cap had enough air molecules to dry tiny bits of varnish. I deliberately avoided getting any varnish on the screw neck and cap ( the inner cap surface gets wet in transit in the post ) as linseed oil bottles like to weld themselves shut and the neck can get very messy and lumpy. That`s why I doled out the first amounts with a small metal spoon. (to avoid pouring it). The bottle neck is cleaned up now . It was hard to see anything there even when I was looking for it. But generally I think varnish needs straining through a mesh filter to avoid the lumps. It`s what French polishers do .They wet one side of the cloth and rub with the other side. But it`s good French varnish and has a strange burnt smell. Most picture varnish will easily dissolve away for restoration but this one is permanent. Good stuff. Maybe a throw - away pipette would pick up the varnish more cleanly. I have heard of adding glass marbles into the bottle as the varnish is used to minimise the air inside. A sticky tape round the closed cap might help too. Just to keep the air away. It was hard to locate this kind of varnish so it`s worth a mention.

[John Cadd]

While the varnish is on the menu I found the brush type becoming a problem. I used a Daler brush with fine ginger coloured synthetic hairs. They tend to pull into 4 or 5 clumps and leave gaps.The natural hairs I think will be stiffer in the main length and thinner just near the tip.Then the whole width is evenly distributed and does not separate. I have heard badger bristles work well .The other ones are Sable.But reading about them tells you it`s really some kind of ferret or weasel. Cue for a joke there.

[Muswell]

My first post. I'm part way through my first violin. I have been reading about varnish and am rather daunted by the witchcraft/home-brew approach and the expense of some of the systems on the market. French polishing guitars seems so much less complicated. So, this seems very attractive as a start.

Did you just apply it straight or was there a primer/sealer/ground? What colour is it? Maybe I should just get some and give it a try on some scrap.

[John Cadd]

Yes , the varnish topic soon gets in deep water . I was pleased to find the basic ingredient that dried properly and knew where to buy it. It`s a clear gloss varnish and I used Winsor and Newton Burnt Sienna in the Artists` Oil Colour range. Many makers make very different shades of Burnt Sienna but the Winsor one has an attractive orange through brown effect and is ideal normal violin type colouring . It`s Transparent (very important for varnish ) and a Permanent colour. I was very cautious about the first layer which was not varnish but EDIT HERE [ Liberon Special Pale French Polish wiped on to avoid too much on the surface . ] Followed by a few light layers of boiled linseed wiped on very sparingly with a lint free cloth material.Leave that to dry first . Not enough to soak in anywhere. The first varnish layer was clear. Second was a yellow Rowney Artists Oil Colour 601 Aureolin Series F. A garish yellow which is also Transparent and Permanent. The makers seem shy about marking the tubes and some tubes I had looked a nice colour but were Opaque. Good for paint. Useless for varnish. I wanted all the ripply grain to show.
I mentioned drying and the surface light touch skin in about 2 to 3 days because by that stage insects will not get stuck if you hang it in the sun for a few hours. If you get a black light box for quicker drying make sure you wear the yellow polycarbonate glasses to protect your eyes. It will mess your eyes up otherwise. "Mess up" is not a strictly medical term , you understand.

[Muswell]

I'm not sure I'm clear about the colours. After the linseed oil and then a coat of clear was it a coat with colour 601 followed by further coats to taste with Burnt Sienna?

Being a retired engineer I've got my demountable light box designed already. One feature will be a door interlock for the lights...number one grandson has a most enquiring mind.

[John Cadd]

Muswell I forgot to mention the very first thing I applied. It was Liberon Special Pale French Polish which has the main ingredients for a basic first layer. I wiped it on rather than brushing it. I could minimise the quantity that way. Michael Darnton gave some interesting advice about all this on another topic. I think it was about the corduroy effect. It`s on the first page of topics somewhere here. Try to do all the tests on a cheap wooden board first though. One small spoonful (less than a teaspoon ) will coat a whole violin in one layer. The aim is not to let varnish soak into the wood.
I read about this kind of varnish on the Amac Violins site. Look for Alfio Batelli there . His short varnishing method is described. He was born about 1903 in Florence and died in Los Angeles.

[John Cadd]

The colours . Many violins have a yellow coating before the deeper red , brown or orange are applied. One single colour looks a bit plain. Some makers alternate colours with clear coats to give more visual depth. The Batelli method only uses 2 colour layers.
So seal the surface .Then a clear layer to make sure nothing soaks into the wood.( linseed or thinned varnish wiped on ) .Then yellow (in the varnish ) brushed on . Then main colours. , brushed on Some makers smear the paint on by hand and then varnish on top . It seems messy and complicated so I don`t do that. You can see videos of that. Just make a nice job of varnishing without all the nasty fake wear and tear. I have some plain sides with little grain pattern and I like the calm uncomplicated appearance without too much colour.

[Muswell]

Thanks very much for all this info. I'll do trials on some offcuts from guitar soundboards and ripple sycamore. I'm not going to do any fake aging, it would go against the whole of my professional career and I'd probably have a nervous breakdown from the mental conflict if I tried.

[John Cadd]

That`s good. I just remembered some of the advice about sealing the surface . Even a thin coating of glue was used. It didn`t seem to be a vital worry as long as it didn`t soak up quantities of oil or varnish that might never dry .

[John Cadd]

The adverts from Stewmac , who supply guitar makers with ideas and tools had some top quality sandpaper last week. Each sheet has very accurate grain sizes and makes far fewer scratch marks than usual. Look up the site and see how they describe it. It gets glowing reports from everybody. Precision Abrasives is the name of the sampler set. It does not clog up much either.

[gavin_rossdale]

whats the best varnish to be used for violins..? i was about to ask this to my violin teacher but i never had the chance..

[byacey]

[John Cadd]

See what Michael Darnton writes about varnish as I suggested above .

[gacho]

hello,
i'm not a varnish maker, but have had my share of playing unvarnished violins and played the same ones after i varnished them. quite a difference . everyone has "their own secret" . 3lb. cut shellac,i've found,
does a great job of sealing the wood w/o killing it. EGG whites. never done it. smelly damn violin! all I know , a reputible company in Germany
sells an awesome product through a violin parts co..

[Mat Roop]