Violin Forum/Message Board

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Hi all

Just a quick introduction. I'm Steve from the UK and I'll fess up immediately, I'm really a guitar maker.

I have a very important client (daughter) who wants a good violin and asked me to make her one. As it happens I came across an ancient looking violin in a junk shop in what looks like a crocodile case but the instrument is a little distressed.

The main damage is around the end block which looks like it has been pushed into the body - no cracks or breaks.

I guess the soundboard will have to come off to replace / reset the end block.

The finish needs attention also but this makes me nervous. I'm aware that the finish on violins is seen as much more of a tonal issue than with guitars.

Looking forward to getting to know you all.

Cheers

Steve.

Chet Bishop · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject:

Jump in and build her one! You are in a good place to learn...you can get books, materials, and so forth, then get the encouragement and advice right here, or in any of several other forums.

A book you ought to get is The Art of Violin Making by Johnson & Courtnall. Then you will need to choose a pattern. Let the client know that this will be your very first violin...that ought to add to the value, if he/she already believes in your skill.

I would bet that the resulting violin will be FAR better than the junker you are thinking of restoring. You already have the tools (most of them)...you just need to learn the difference between guitar lutherie and violin lutherie.

Michael Darnton started out as a guitar maker, and switched to violins. You could check out his website.

All of which is to say, "Come on in! The Water is fine!" Smile

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https://bluefiddles.com
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Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: Introduction

Welcome to the board, Steve.

I don't think some touch up and a bit of french polish over existing finish is going to make that much of a difference, not on a fixer-upper of no distinction. Sometimes there is a label under the dust, a small paint brush through the "f" hole might clean the label off and reveal its past.

YOu should find on the post, lots of blogs about removing and replacing the top (belly) so you can get in and reset the end block.

Good luck, lots of the same principles apply.
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Chet Bishop · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject:

Ah! I just re-read your post and realized you were sying that the important client is YOUR daughter. In that case, all the more reason to build her one. How much more precious that would be to her.
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uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:21 am Post subject:

The Strad posters (posters from "The Strad" magazine, that is) are a good source of plans...or there are others. But if you follow that book, you won't go far wrong.

The Henry Strobel books are a fairly simple starting point, and include a full-size set of plans (double, actually, so that you can pull one of them out of the book, and use it to make a violin). They cost about $30 USD, last I checked. It makes a decent violin, but it is derived from a bisiach violin, if I recall. The Strad posters give you a wider range of possibilities. You can look them up on line.

Nothing wrong with your plan to use the old fiddle to learn on.

Another such idea might be to buy one of the cheap "violin kits" from Stewart MacDonalds, or Grizzly.com, or some such place, and take it apart, reassemble it, mess around with it, check graduation thicknesses, and finally assemble, varnish and set it up. You would familiarize yourself with the insides of a fiddle at very low cost, and little risk.
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BK · Member Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 60

Welcome to the forum!

This sounds like a fun project. Your daughter will love it. Smile

Just my opinion, but I have found the Strad posters to be a more helpful resource than Strobel, because the Strad posters provide actual CT scans and precise dimensions of notable violins. They also provide you with a cool poster that you can hang up in your shop and you can select which violin you would like to build.

Not to say that Strobel will not provide insight. The more resources, the better!

Cheers!
BK

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Thanks for that guys.

Just looking through the strad posters - no idea which one to choose!

I know asking for advice on this is really asking what you would like to build, but just on the off chance that there is a good reason to choose one over another, I will ask Very Happy

Any suggestions?

Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:49 am Post subject:

I used the Milanollo Strad poster, at the suggestion of Michael Darnton...but I don't know whether it is still available. I have been told that he is now recommending the "Titian". If that is not right, I hope he steps in, here, and corrects me.
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uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

BK · Member Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 60

I have been using the Titan Strad poster. It seems to be a really good one for what I've needed it for. Of course, I'm sure there are several others that are excellent to model a violin on as well. Other folks on the forum may have more informed suggestions, as I am a novice and still learning.

uksteve · Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject:

Well, at some risk of sounding like a know-it-all, which I truly am not, I would humbly suggest you also find a teacher. There are SO many pitfalls you can avoid by having someone correct you quickly, rather than allow you to make a host of mistakes, then have to start over and make most of them all over again, because you were only made aware of one or two of them.

There are workshops available, and people literally fly in from all over the world to attend them. I can personally recommend the Southern California workshop, run by Jim Brown, and taught by Michael Darnton, Lynn Hannings, Robert Cauer, and perhaps others. This is not a fluff, "get together and swap stories about violinmaking" gig. It is real "Watch: this is how I do this. Now, go to your workstation and YOU do it!"- type training.

The workshop is worth every penny, if you are serious about learning this skill. My brother once pointed out, in his usual oblique way, "There are no self-taught golfers on the pro circuit". (undoubtedly quoting some business guru) Good point-- even the best of the best hire other professionals to hone their skills.

Most of the teaching I obtained, I had to pay for, and I travelled a long way to get it. I drove 1500 miles each way to get to Tucson and back-- and about 1000 miles each way to get to Claremont, for the Jim Brown/ Michael Darnton school. When I went to Michael Klein, I left home at 2 AM Saturday, and drove to his place, six hours away, arriving just in time to start class. Class was from 8:30-4:30, and I slept in my car. Class on Sunday again, and at 4:30PM I threw all my tools in the car, and drove home, arriving about 11PM, in time to get a few hours sleep, and get up at 4 AM to go to work.

Long post, but my point is that the training "opportunities" are, for the most part, something you make...you have to want them badly enough to go get them. The books and internet are a very good start. I would really recommend that you find a teacher, though. Even a local luthier who is willing to coach you through the building of your first instruments is far better than just winging it on your own.

I coached a young fellow through the building of his first violin, and it turned out way better than my first. Then he proceeded to build a cello, and it turned out great, too. I really think you will have a much faster, more pleasant learning experience if you take that route, rather than insisting on being an utter autodidact.
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Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: second thoughts:

On the other hand, I guess if you only want to make one or two fiddles, the books and internet will take you a very long way, for very little cost.

The problem is that lutherie is addictive. At some point you will want to get good at it. By that time you may have firmly entrunched some bad habits. I have had a hard time ridding myself of some of them.
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com