Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

Etsy has a supply of natural gut violin strings from India . Meerut--Not far from Nepal .
Made by EmersonCraft Uni. They are all black and coiled up with cable ties.Each string is Six Metres long , Five thicknesses from 0.5 mm to 0.9 mm .
For each size the price is (was) about £8.That works out very cheap .
They supply for double basses ,harps ,and even Grandfather clocks .
Geared pegs are a good idea for gut strings.Fine tuners will become a nuisance . The cheaper geared pegs from Ali Express for about £30 needed the string holes enlarged to one mm . I used a pin vise to grip the drill bit and slowly wound it in by hand. Soft aluminium was not hard to shift . Sharp edges were smoothed for the gut strings .

[John Cadd]

i have been trying these strings and found I was fitting them wrong .I looked up ebay gut strings and they showed the thicknesses . The thinner 0.5 mm is too thin for a 4/4 size .Now I have to move the others up one fifth and fit the 0.9mmm for the G.
If you pluck these strings they are much clearer than wire wound strings.
Fitting them one fifth too slack ,especially on the G had the string bending out of shape .I was a bit wary of snapping the unfamiliar strings . I grew up with gut strings originally in the early 50s . I should be used to them .

[John Cadd]

Trying these Indian gut strings needs a steep learning curve .The biggest problem I had was with the G string.The packets were clear plastic with some felt pen writing showing the thicknesses.One packet had smudged figures making it uncertain .I made sure to keep the dimensions in order by weighing each packet on my small digital weighing machine.
I used the thinnest 0.5 gut string on E.The packets do not tell you which strings go where .For now it works on E. This guesswork used to be part of the violin world long ago .You tried and tested until it worked .There is a lot of controversy about what strings Paganini used.Some are convinced he used Thin gut strings.Others say the opposite and talk about his Thick strings .But enough of being sycophants and dreaming of international stardom . This is just dipping the toes into possible tonal improvements .
Working down from E I used the strings in sequence.The thickest string at 0.9mm was left out for now.0.8 was far too slack .It was a saggy Bagpuss slack
.The bow might get a note down near the fingerboard if you were being very gentle.But the bow would start jumping around as the string deflected too far .
Reversing the order and working back again from the bottom string I fitted the 0.9 as G . The saggy 0.8 went to D .The 0.7 went to A.I feft the thin E in place. Now I was getting distinctly Golden Tone sounds in between the hissing and crackling .It`s a more interesting test to show what the violin is going to do .
It is much harder than fitting Octave violin strings Those are a dream first time you fit them . As far as I know those are all steel .
In between all the string changes I was testing different afterlength settings . That process was not very productive.
Part of the fun is getting away from metal wound strings. I also ordered a Goldbrokat plain steel E string for about £4 . The thin gut E is going to break some time. That`s par for the course I think . But perversely I also sent for a gut G string with metal windings that is made for that job.That had an Italian name so it better be good . Ritzorri .They show the string gauges and I seem to have got the A and D right .Those are all gut and not that expensive .Their G is 1.1mm and their E is 6.6mm .The Indian stings can be ordered separately .The 6 metre lengths give you ten strings for the price of one basically . Smaller violins can use different thicknesses .But tuning these gut strings on small violins with basic wooden pegs will not be easy . Small separate guitar tuners would be more fun rather than punishment . Wittner fine tuners are not recommended for gut strings which invents a way to lock out the nice sounds available . I have to see that as a negative influence .Easier is to fit geared lookalike tuner pegs .I bet advertisers will hate the word lookalike .

[John Cadd]

Getting things in order today I fitted a proper new French bridge which made a massive improvement mainly by getting the right string clearances .I am waiting for a thicker gut G string with metal wndings. The current 0.9 gut G is too slack so I retuned it to D where it was . Now I have 2 D strings . The 0.9 D string is far better . I can bow near the bridge or the fingerboard. The correct tension removes the string noises like hissing .I am using the Wittner tailpiece with an adjuster screw to alter the afterlength. It has no fine tuners . I fitted some single mandolin geared tuners . These have shorter shafts that do not poke out through the opposite side .
I can do experiments on this violin. I changed this top years ago when the original had woodworm . I changed the neck as the original had a small knot that bent the neck .But these tuners are wonderfully easy and reliable .
Looking for plain gut G strings I came across a set of strings for a Shamisen .They were made of Kevlar . The warning was to be careful with the top string in case too much tension might break the bridge (or the instrument ) .

[John Cadd]

I will have to start a new topic about the Wittner tailpieces with a screw adjuster to tune the afterlength .
I tested the afterlength yesterday and the note was flatter than the open string above.To raise the afterlength note you have to slacken the screw .But that makes a change to the bridge angle . Slackening the screw will let the bridge move towards the fingerboard just a tiny amount . When you get the back of the bridge vertical again you are doing the shortening job which the screw has made possible.
Today after some other changes the afterlength sounded sharper than the open string above.This time I turned the screw tighter one half turn and that brought the afterlength frequency down once the bridge check was done .The 2 strings matched.The E string sounded brighter straight away .
For lots of players who are careless about keeping the bridge straight it will be seen as an awful chore .
I had the idea that the Wittner with screw would be useful temporary test to find the right afterlength but it`s so accurate it has to become a permanent fixture. Just fitting a wooden tailpiece for looks is not good enough any more . This Wittner minus fine tuners is 17 grams which is a good in between weight .The Goldilocks weight .

[John Cadd]

Baroque gut strings are also made in India but they are expensive compared to the black ones on Etsy .It`s strange that the thickest black strings are only 0.9 mm .They are too light for a G string .But being cheap offsets the shorter life span of gut .It seems a bad idea that many younger players might not try gut even for a short time out of curiosity .The problem is with wooden pegs at one end and fine tuners at the other .But the peg problem (which must exist )is made worse with higher tension steel strings .
Many brands of string are fitted with ball ends now which leaves several players wondering how to attach a gut string with a knot or make a working loop . Even loops on a steel E string can break if the fine tuner hook is not padded with a plastic extra . All traps for the unwary beginners .The violin trade has this merciless quality when you think about it .

[John Cadd]

There are gut strings on ebay made by Cathedral Strings.They advertise in bunches with red coloured knots. I have seen the G strings and they are not expensive andthe thickness is correct .I ordered one to match the black set from India .The Cathedrals are Gut with Silver windings . Their D strings are also Gut and silver .
The black 0.5 E string is working and if (when ) that breaks I can alternate with the 0.6 size which is the best gauge for E . So nothing gets wasted .The cheaper geared pegs from Ali Express may not be perfect but learning how to adjust the final tuning by gentle stretching or tweaking the pegbox tension puts you back in time when gut strings were all you had . It`s a historical learning curve that is not as expensive as buying modern string designs .
The more stretchy gut means the bridge straight back needs to be watched more .All the gut strings tend to pull the bridge forward . It`s good basic training if you have been careless about that .
The normal process for making gut strings includes bleaching .That may make them look better or sound better . Maybe the black ones avoid that chemical step .I don`t know why they are black .It looks quite good .
The word Catgut is a shortened version of Cattle Gut .Sheep and Goats used to be called Cattle at one time .
Now the 3 string Japanese Shamizen has a thin neck and a square body and the top is made of natural skin from ---wait for it --Dog or Cat Skin .I bet you always wanted to know that .
The Shamizen is plucked by what looks like a Paint Scraper.

[John Cadd]

One important detail when you check the afterlength tuning is to use the edge of your bow on the afterlength.If you use the flat hair it`s like using a bow 6 times as wide on the main string. The afterlength has to be seen as 1/6th miniature sized string.

[John Cadd]

The G string which has Cathedral strings printed in the ebay list comes with a pamphlet by The Vintage Vestry in Swansea (Wales UK).It`s to help renovate or maintain a small rural Chapel. Anyway the string is gut with silver winding and the sound perfectly matches the black gut strings from India .The sound is smooth from the start .I made sure to begin with fresh rosin . Clear notes from the fingerboard to bridge . Not an expensive string and G strings last longer than the trebles .
Other string brands (also made in India )concentrating on Baroque music have no windings at all . Baroque afficionados will foam at the mouth if they notice such modern features . It`s important to look on gut strings for simple sound quality rather than part of a violin cult.
Baroque players have developed all sorts of attitudes they like to impose on each other .What instrument you play/ Gut strings/Low fingerboard /How to hold the instrument/ No chinrests/No shoulder rests/Short "authentic " bows. It`s their club rules and good luck to them .

[John Cadd]

Generally Gut strings are the most expensive . The Indian strings from Emerson Craft Uni on Etsy must be the most affordable strings anywhere . If you cut them to length you have ten sets . The thicker strings needed for the G are 1.2 mms approx .They are on Etsy as lighter fawn coloured . To encourage younger penniless players Emerson Craft will give you a discount if you mention my name . I am happy to push players to try the traditional ways to play violins. If you want to try geared pegs there are some on Ali Express at £37 a set of 4 . The sellers are called Naomi and they show a diagram of the shaft thickness . 2 sizes to pick from which shows they are trying . So that`s 2 money savers in this inflationary world . A few hundred years ago gut strings would all have cost you an arm and a leg .

[John Cadd]

A surprise awaits anyone curious about Indian bowed instruments using natural gut .They have a traditional instrument called a Sarangi .It`s roughly the length of a violin and is played in a crosslegged position or sitting . The four main strings are gut .The sympathetic strings are steel and there are about 37 of them !!!!Thirty Seven.
It is the most difficult instrument to play and has the lowest status .
Historically every brothel had a Sarangi player and the instrument remarkably mimics the sound of a human voice . They were banned at one time and adverts say ---only professionals can play them . They came through a Muslim tradition .
Videos show there is nothing like violin vibrato but more a sliding finger action .I`m not sure if there is a fingerboard beneath the thick strings . The bow looks more like an ancient cello bow . Sarangi .Look it up and amaze yourself . I challenge you to play one with a Hurdy Gurdi .
The unusual intonation method shows the left hand fingers slide beneath the strings and the back of the fingernails and cuticles rub on the strings . This friction can cause the cuticles to bleed until the skin hardens .Just be grateful you play a violin. A popular pub quiz answer to "What is the hardest instrument to play ?" --"A Sarangi ." --gets the points .

[John Cadd]

If the torture of a Sarangi is too much there is a close relative called a Dilruba which has metal frets that curve across the body( neck?) and that gives fixed fret positions and you play with fingertips as normal . Vibrato is possible . The fret spacing looks more like a violin fingering pattern rather than a standard guitar fret pattern .
All this is of interest because the sounds are so close to the human voice .A sound to melt your heart , you could say .
I imagine Rudyard Kipling would have been familiar with these bowed sounds . I wonder if Menuhin every tried one .
One Sarangi on ebay is Handpainted and is a real artistic gem. The characters ( 4 people) portrayed remind me of Persian carpet themes .Very beautiful .

[John Cadd]

The war with Iran made me look at the musical culture of Persia . Their bowed instrument is a Kamenchah .You can watch performances on youtube. I imagine these sound better with gut strings .The body of the instrument looks like a gourd . Best played sitting down or cross legged . The sound has a hint of Charango about it . A refreshing sound .The music of Iran has a close connection with India . Mostly improvised and performances are mostly unique .