Violin Forum/Message Board

R Mac · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: Gemünder's book.

So, last night I read another 19th C violin manifesto. This one is Georg Gemünder's "Progress in Violin Making".

http://archive.org/stream/georggemunderspr00gemuiala#page/n7/mode/2up

It's pretty much a self promotional document. The basic idea seems to be to convince people that new (19thC) fiddles can be just as good as (or maybe even just a bit better than) old Cremonese ones...if they are made by the Author.

In the course of the book, he takes come cuts at Vuillaume in order to distance himself from his former master's use of chemically aged wood. His other complaint was about the unorthodox set-up ideas of Olle Bull. It irked Gemünder, that some of his customers wanted their violins set up in whatever weird way Bull was currently advocating.

In all, if you cut through the self congratulation, it's an interesting read. I think I am beginning to get some feel for the attitudes surrounding violins and their makers in the 19th C.

Mac

ctviolin · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Gemünder's book.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject:

I always wondered where the accusation that Vuillaume treated wood with chemicals came from. Based on what I've seen, there are just a couple that were treated with nitric acid, an experiment that always goes wrong, and very few, at that. So given that those few appear to be the kind of isolated mistake all makers make once in a while, that they hope their competitors don't find out about and blow all out of proportion, I guess we can mark Gemunder down on that point, too.
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R Mac · Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject:

I think I recall reading one of the turn of the century "how-to guys" (Heron-Allen or Petherick) complaining about acid treated wood as if it were a more or less common thing to watch out for.

If the practice truly was rather isolated, uncommon, and early abandoned, it certainly sent a shock wave through the literature. This is exactly the sort of thing I am finding interesting.

Mac

jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

I darkened a precarved top plate with nitric acid with some bow makers once. It looked lovely until the end grain started to disintegrate!
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Michael Darnton · Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject:

I have a friend who ruined $250,000, retail, of instruments with nitric acid fuming. The look of wood that's been done to is very clear once you know it. I've also seen a few French instruments from the 20th century that have been acid washed, and were falling apart, literally. Again, it has a specific look.
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R Mac · Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject:

pmccombs · Member Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Utah

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:06 pm Post subject:

The two nitric acid treated instruments I worked on were French, one from around 1920, the other a cello from 1949. On both, the inside wood was toasty looking, and they both had a lot of top cracks. In both cases, as I would pull one top crack closed, the stress would open another. I managed to get the cello back together, with a lot of cracks and studs. The violin was later, and by that time I knew better and just gave it back to the owner unrepaired.
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R Mac · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject:

If I am understanding this correctly, the problem with nitric acid treated wood is that it deteriorates over time. Is this about residual acidity in the wood? Do folks who use nitric take any measures to neutralize the acidity when they are done? I can't be the first person to think of this....

Mac

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:42 pm Post subject:

As a friend of mine commented, whatever you do to neutralize the acid is doomed to forever be chasing the acid through the wood. I don't think it takes the acid long to do the damage, but longer for the damage to be recognized and become a problem.
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L P Reedy · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject:

I spent my career as an analytical chemist dealing with pulp, paper and cellophane. Cellophane is a transparent sheet made by regenerating cellulose from an alkaline solution in an acid bath. The sheet is thoroughly washed before being dried. Point is, though, acid over time degrades cellulose, which is the backbone of wood. Acid pulping processes are the reason so many 100 year old books are falling apart. Alkali doesn't bother cellulose but does affect lignin long term. I would never treat wood with a mineral acid, such as nitric, hydrochloric or sulfuric (actually can't think of any reason I would want to), but specialized use of a volatile organic acid is not likely to be damaging because any excess acid evaporates and is not very reactive anyway.

Lyle