Violin Forum/Message Board

[fiddler59]

Chet,
That is a really beautiful 5-string......the wood in the back is beyond stunning.
I am a reasonably accomplished fiddler (BGrass, Texas, Old-Time, and Swing), and have been playing a 5-string off and on for the last 25-30 yrs. Keep up the great work....!!

David Blackmon

[kjb]

chet very nice you really have the purfling down , double down!
My next project will be a 5 string, I am wondering what design you used or model and if you enlarged it by a certain percentage?? It seems a a few people I have read about are using the cannon and making it bigger by a certain percentage. THanks for any help and if you would rather not post I will check my PMs/ thanks kevin.

[Chet Bishop]

Quite honestly, I don't know what the model is.

I salvaged a back of a cheap, badly smashed fiddle that happened to have nice wood, for my first five-string (not this one) and "reverse engineered" to make a mold, ribs, and a top plate. The original purfling was pretty bad, so I dug it out and re-purfled it (again, not this instrument) with double purfling, emulating the Gasparó da Saló viola, just a little. As it turned out, with the rest of the changes I made (deeper ribs and bass bar, longer pegbox, etc.) it actually worked well.

So...when I started the second one, obviously, I used the same mold. I think I went a little too long on the corners-- I don't like them much. But it sings remarkably well, and I really have no complaints about the looks except as noted.

The outline is unchanged from a regular violin-- it fits in a violin case. Plays like a small viola on the low end, and like a violin on the high end. Quite well balanced--surprisingly so.

I may try another model sometime soon, but I hate to change something that works.

David, I don't think I saw your post before now. Thanks for the vote of confidence!
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[DonLeister]

Funny you should mention salvaging an old instrument to make a 5-string!
I have an old 14" viola that picked up and am in the process of making it into a 5 string. I am now working out the neck/fingerboard and considering the widths there.
What works? How wide should I make the nut end? And how thick? What is a good string spacing?
What did you do Chet? Have you had any feedback from players?

On this instrument the old neck (w/o fingerboard) was 22mm wide at the nut and had only 4 peg holes so I pulled it out and the block (which was small) and am putting in a new block and pre-made neck so I can make things a little bigger. The new neck is I think 26 wide at the nut and my new board is 28 there.
Any tips? Any one play a 5 string here? I'd love to here your 2 cents.

[Chet Bishop]

I had right about 25mm at the nut, with 5mm between string centers, as I recall, but I think 26 would be better, and 5.5mm between string centers--but that leaves only 2mm on each side...pretty tight.

I deepened the ribs considerably,and lengthened the pegbox. Thinned the plates more than usual, but not much more-- I tend toward light instruments anyway. Taller bassbar.

I strung it with a Helicore 5-string set.

The new owner (Cliff Stansell of the Pistol River Trio) loves it...says he will make a video with it, for me. When he does I will post the link.

I only had the back of that instrument--all the rest was made in the usual manner, except that I had to work backward from the plate to produce a mold, etc. Fortunately it turned out well.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[kjb]

thanks for the info, funny how things work out sometimes. Maybe its your intuition that is the culprit!
I was thinking of taking my plans for the plowden and having them enlarged soem percentage and going from there with maybe deeper ribs. I guess it will be a trial and error experiment!

[Chet Bishop]

Well...one of the key ingredients, from a marketability frame of reference, is that the fiddlers all want it to fit in a fiddle case.

That is why I kept the size of the outline exactly that of a violin. The scroll is maybe 3/4" longer, and the ribs are maybe 5mm deeper, etc. but it fits in a regular violin case.

I like the Plowden, and I may try a five-string based on it, but this one was strictly an experiment that worked out well.

Chet
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[kjb]

yes the fitting into the case is a big plus, and being the same size you wouldn;t have to readjust your playing style. I was thinking of doing this viola as a 5 string, but 16.5 " is just too big I think.

I was thinking about making the ribs deeper for volume, and also I have a lot of space between my shoulder and chin, and use a fairly high shoulder rest any way. But not sure how to figure out how much larger or if making more volume would be a bad idea? thanks again

[DonLeister]

Thanks Chet.

I have the new neck in and am looking at the next set of issues of a 5 string violin at the bridge end, like bridge size, curve and spacing.

I'm guessing a regular violin bridge would work, just left a little thicker. Sound good?

[Chet Bishop]

Hmmm...Yes, that is probably what I did, but I expect it is because I always tend toward making my bridges a little too thick anyway. I don't think I made them any thicker than I normally do, but what you say seems to make sense.

One problem with five-string fiddles is the spacing of the strings at the nut. If you make the spacing big enough for thick-fingered fiddlers (lots of 'em out there) then either the neck has to be pretty wide (in which case they complain about the wide neck) OR the C and E strings have to be pretty close to the edges. That is the direction I went.

I did not think to do this on the two I made so far, but I think it might be smart to widen the pegbox at the nut, just a little, so that you can space the strings wider and not rub (hard) on the sides of the pegbox. I will try it on the next one.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[fjodor]

Lovely violin Chet, must have been hard to do the purfling inlay!?

What about the fingerboard and bridge curve. A normal violin fingerboard has a ~42 mm radius. Do you use a tighter curve on the 5 string violins?

I'm thinking about building a small 5-string viola as my next project.

[Janito]

Some points on aesthetics for consideration:

> The inner purfling is too distant from the outer one - the visual 'discordance' is most obvious in the C bouts where it almost touches the upper Fs. This accentuates the impression that the F's are falling outwards.

> Without a straight front/back image it is difficult to tell, but the corners look very long.

[Chet Bishop]

The corners are certainly too long-- which is what I already noted. Wasn't intentional-- by the time I realized just how long they were, I already had the purfling in place, which makes it awkward to shorten them afterward.

On the purfling, I was emulating the 1580 Gasparó da Saló, and it had the purfling fairly wide, but it was also a wider instrument. Oh, well...

I'll do better next time.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[Russell]

Chet , that violin is amazing , the wood is outstanding your workmanship is outstanding the whole violin is superb from my standpoint, congrads on a beautiful build. Russ

[Chet Bishop]

Thanks, Russell.

I hope to build a lot more of them, and "improve my serve" in the process.

I don't like long corners (check out my website, and you can see that I usually make shorter corners) but occasionally I have fallen prey to them. Usually it is when I am using a design I got from someone else-- and I think the reason is that when you trace a mold or a template, the tendency is for the corners to get longer. At that point, you either recognize what has happened, and modify your own templates to correct the error, or go ahead and build, and they get even longer.

Ah, well...still learning. Glad you like the fiddle. I like it too, and it does play nicely. The wood is even more beautiful "in person", as the light shifts and changes in the flame when you move it in your hands.

I will have it at the Marylhurst show, April 27th and 28th. I hope it finds a home.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com