Violin Forum/Message Board

[johngia]

[ctviolin]

[Michael Darnton]

Another book section, just up. . . http://www.darntonviolins.com/violinmagazine/book/UnderstandingTone.pdf
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[actonern]

Very interesting read... I'll be going over it a few times.

Do you know of any written source that develops the themes raised in this chapter from the maker's perspective?

So if I found an instrument that was too "tight" in response I'd try x or y. If the consonant attack at the start of the note was non existent I'd do...

Anything like that, short of an apprenticeship?

This is one area I feel the most keenly a lack of confidence... optimization of sound via setup and adjustment.

E

[Michael Darnton]

I did cover that in the adjustment chapter, which I've pulled. Over time, I started realizing that I had a lot more to say than I'd written, and that my strategy for adjustment had changed a lot, so I decided to rewrite it.

Otherwise, no, there's nothing written. I'd say that there's not a whole lot of adjustment knowledge floating around in shops, either: based on what my customers tell me most people in violin workshops just sort of slap a violin around and hope for the best until you get tired and tell them to stop.
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[actonern]

THAT's a chapter I'll be looking forward to!!!

E

[Michael Darnton]

Generally, Ernie, I can tell you that if a player says the violin is "tight" that ALWAYS means, from your end, that it's loose. Tighten the post, for a start--pull it east a mm and see if he says you loosened it up. There are other things you can do, but that usually clears the problem right up if the post fits at all.
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[actonern]

It's gems like that are so helpful.

In the Cournall book the final chapter is devoted to setup. The writer appears to imply that most faults in violins, from weak tone to wolf notes, are the result of poorly fitting post ends against plates.

[Michael Darnton]

The major effect I see from post fit is the fullness of the sound suffers if the bottom of the post doesn't fit the back perfectly. If you can spin the post around easily on one corner with your post setter, pull it around until it fits solidly on the back and won't spin. That, alone, makes a huge difference, almost no matter how you accomplish it. I always fit posts so they won't spin, at either end, and then touch that up after the strings are cranked up, because plate shapes change under string tension. It makes a huge difference--so much that I can hear now, right away, if a post doesn't fit--the center of the sound seems missing.
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[actonern]

This is great stuff!

I'm trying to visualise the change to the plates under tension... would I be right to think that the east/west arch shape of the top will not change much but the long arch in bridge post area will deform in angle slightly because of the off set of the bridge foot to post placement?

And then the back... does a correctly fitted post with no string tension become less perfectly fitting under tension on the back plate?

Thanks in advance!

E

[Canuck]

I was in Cremona, Italy, about three weeks ago. There is a violin maker's shop right in the main square, and his is one of approximately 100 luthiers currently active, in Cremona. The maker's name is Luca Salvatori. He was in his shop, working on a violin as I entered his shop. We spoke briefly, and I asked him if he would permit me to photograph him as he worked. He was shaping a violin back at the time, and I noticed that he had shaped the back with a "button"at about where I assumed the sound post would eventually go. I gather this might be common practise, and that a matching "button" might be carved under the top plate as well? Placing a post so it makes total contact with both the top and the back, and to have it in the right place would seem to me to be an acquired skill!

I also visited the shop of a violin retailer on the main square, at Cremona.
Had I known I would be participating in this message board upon arrival back home, I think I would have made some enquiries at the shop of the violin retailer as to price, etc. he had on display about 7 or 8 violins by Cremona makers, the earliest one was 1997, and the newest being 2012.

[Michael Darnton]

No, that's not common.

Ernie, what happens immediately, and over time is that the top and back swell a bit. The biggest effect at the post is that the cross arch becomes slightly rounder. You're right about the ends coming in, and that causes the center to rise. The c-bouts are nailed down, though, so the rising center makes the arching rounder, which means steeper away from the centerline, where the post is.
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[Lemuel]

Some really great information on "Understanding Tone". Thanks so much Micheal. I've learned a few things and will be trying some things out, like the trick used by the Cleveland Orchestra cellist for testing tonal flexibility and variety. I was also unaware of the "Point source, or cloud" parameter, and you got me really curious about the "Cremonese" sound.

Thanks also for including an extensive list of sound terms and definitions, and suggesting the use of software synthesizers for learning to hear them.

[ctviolin]